Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Nickbat on 31 March 2013, 23:11:36
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Not wishing to stir up a hornet's nest, but...
Nearly 900,000 people who were on incapacity benefit dropped their claim to the payments rather than undergo a tough medical test, latest government figures show.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9963012/900000-choose-to-come-off-sickness-benefit-ahead-of-tests.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9963012/900000-choose-to-come-off-sickness-benefit-ahead-of-tests.html)
:o :o ;)
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friend of mine has a muscle wasting disease and also has plates and pins in her spine--she cannot drive and yet expect her to traval miles via train to undergo assessment-yet she lives near the countries top orthopaedic hospital :D :D :D
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it would be beter if these pannels had medical people on them instead of lackys
i went to one im in a wheelchair most of the time the pannel was on the 4th floor with out any lift so they sent me home when i proved that i cant climb stairs this took 1/2 hour of arguing with one of them he said that if they sent me here i must be able to climb stairs a phone call to my doctor soon put him straight i recived a letter 4 dats later apologizing and that i should not have been sent to see them in the first place ive never heard a thing from them again
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it would be beter if these pannels had medical people on them instead of lackys
i went to one im in a wheelchair most of the time the pannel was on the 4th floor with out any lift so they sent me home when i proved that i cant climb stairs this took 1/2 hour of arguing with one of them he said that if they sent me here i must be able to climb stairs a phone call to my doctor soon put him straight i recived a letter 4 dats later apologizing and that i should not have been sent to see them in the first place ive never heard a thing from them again
If that was a public access building then that is ilegal under the Disability Discrimination Act, not sure how they can get away with that.....
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More than 46,120 people claimed incapacity benefit because of “behavioural disorders due to the use of alcohol” while 29,130 claimants cited drug use.
They ougtht to take the medical, it seems the system is so that they can claim extra benifits for thier "problem" from some of the stories I have heard recently. :-\
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it would be beter if these pannels had medical people on them instead of lackys
i went to one im in a wheelchair most of the time the pannel was on the 4th floor with out any lift so they sent me home when i proved that i cant climb stairs this took 1/2 hour of arguing with one of them he said that if they sent me here i must be able to climb stairs a phone call to my doctor soon put him straight i recived a letter 4 dats later apologizing and that i should not have been sent to see them in the first place ive never heard a thing from them again
If that was a public access building then that is ilegal under the Disability Discrimination Act, not sure how they can get away with that.....
Missing the point... ...I suspect it was part of the assessment ;)
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it would be beter if these pannels had medical people on them instead of lackys
i went to one im in a wheelchair most of the time the pannel was on the 4th floor with out any lift so they sent me home when i proved that i cant climb stairs this took 1/2 hour of arguing with one of them he said that if they sent me here i must be able to climb stairs a phone call to my doctor soon put him straight i recived a letter 4 dats later apologizing and that i should not have been sent to see them in the first place ive never heard a thing from them again
If that was a public access building then that is ilegal under the Disability Discrimination Act, not sure how they can get away with that.....
Missing the point... ...I suspect it was part of the assessment ;)
it was supposedly out of order but i had my doubts my doc told me that he said what the hell was i their for and why had they made me attend when i was soposed to be in hospital i did go back in after they let me go [they said that if i didnt turn up my benefits would stop evan if i was in hospital they said that they didnt want any exuses as id used the same one a week ago iwas in hospital for 0 weeks all told
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Unfortunately, Government systems seems to be unbelievably generous, like sending child benefit abroad or unbelievably cruel like in ozzycat's case, where is the sensible middle ground? :(
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Maybe I can explain how the DWP process of DLA affects peoples lives,about 2 years ago a friend of mine finished work due to poor heatlh.He had BIG problems with walking any distance,(he swayed rather than stepped,he hips were knacked)he also had a hernia and depression probs.
Anyway to cut a long story short,he claimed DLA,and was awarded the bottom rate,about £14 a week I beleive.Upon takeing advice from CAB to appeal he did.His appeal was turned down,and his previous award was withdrawn.
About 3 months later he hung himself,in the bedroom of his house.He confided in no one,and I for one never saw what was happening to to such a friend.
I suppose the moral of this posting is that everyone who claims any benifit is a scounger,but someone who just's needs that extra bit of support.
Alfie
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Unfortunately, Government systems seems to be unbelievably generous, like sending child benefit abroad or unbelievably cruel like in ozzycat's case, where is the sensible middle ground? :(
yhere isnt any we are all tarred with the same brush we are all scoungers in the eyes of certain people and the government i worked between 60 & 80 hrs aweek all my working life but xmas 2008 it all ended i spent nearly all 2009 in hospital and was given 6 months to live but im still here just :D :D
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Maybe I can explain how the DWP process of DLA affects peoples lives,about 2 years ago a friend of mine finished work due to poor heatlh.He had BIG problems with walking any distance,(he swayed rather than stepped,he hips were knacked)he also had a hernia and depression probs.
Anyway to cut a long story short,he claimed DLA,and was awarded the bottom rate,about £14 a week I beleive.Upon takeing advice from CAB to appeal he did.His appeal was turned down,and his previous award was withdrawn.
About 3 months later he hung himself,in the bedroom of his house.He confided in no one,and I for one never saw what was happening to to such a friend.
I suppose the moral of this posting is that everyone who claims any benifit is a scounger,but someone who just's needs that extra bit of support.
Alfie
well said :y :y
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it would be beter if these pannels had medical people on them instead of lackys
i went to one im in a wheelchair most of the time the pannel was on the 4th floor with out any lift so they sent me home when i proved that i cant climb stairs this took 1/2 hour of arguing with one of them he said that if they sent me here i must be able to climb stairs a phone call to my doctor soon put him straight i recived a letter 4 dats later apologizing and that i should not have been sent to see them in the first place ive never heard a thing from them again
If that was a public access building then that is ilegal under the Disability Discrimination Act, not sure how they can get away with that.....
Missing the point... ...I suspect it was part of the assessment ;)
No point missed........ ;) ;) tounge in cheek hence no smile's, the first comment from the claimant should have been that he could not access that office...... ;) :-X
I find it strange though that people talk of appealing a benefit which has not even started yet, the PIP is going to be very different, blue badge applications for non high rate mobility claimant's will, in part, be overseen by an occupational therapist, OT
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i cant work out how they can have non medical people make a jugment on medical condicions . they will have mecanics doing it next . >:( >:( >:(
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I said several weeks ago that when the Government Benefit Cuts started the Philrich household would be in deep do-do! Well from today I am Officially classed as being fit for work despite having no Medical assessment! Unfortunately as i'm not fit for work in the 'real' world, I would be commiting Fraud if I tried to claim Jobseekers Allowance or whatever it's called these days! I've Appealed the decision but despite the
best mediocre efforts of my GP in trying to put right his previous ballsup answering the ESA Inquisition letter, they wont change their decision and the Appeals System is running months behind schedule so we will be forced to survive on a near 50% cut in our Benefit income for the forseeable future with little or no guarantee of winning the Appeal. As from today we are to all intents and purposes Bankrupt as we cannot meet our Mortgage or other outgoings by a Country Mile! We have had our home on the Market since just before the World went Financially tits up this last time, as I saw which way the wind was blowing and had hoped to sell up & buy a little 2 up 2 down outright so we at least had the peace of mind of having a secure roof over our head. Any savings we had have slowly leaked away keeping our head above water, I was paying almost £60 a month for Prescription medicines and appliances until I contracted the Big C and became eligible for free prescriptions for 5 years. I have 2 years left of this much appreciated & very welcome financial respite but when it comes to an end I will have the original drugs etc to pay for plus the extra stuff I now need to manage the after effects of my latest surgery. With any luck ( and i'm not joking in the slightest!) I will die in my sleep sooner rather than later as i'm worth more dead than alive and swmbo would have the house paid for. Whatever your views on the Welfare State, NHS or 'Benefits' in general, your life could be turned upside down at any time by accident, illness or circumstances beyond your control and the 'safety net' which we've paid into to cushion us in time of need is no longer there for the majority who are deserving of it. This Pathetic excuse for a Government & their equally Pathetic predecessors couldn't organise a pissup in a brewery! It makes me ashamed to be British! >:(
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I feel for you all the way Phil....its a bloody disgrace. >:(
Does Cameron really think he has a hells hope of getting back in (on the supposition he lasts that long) >:( >:( >:(
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I said several weeks ago that when the Government Benefit Cuts started the Philrich household would be in deep do-do! Well from today I am Officially classed as being fit for work despite having no Medical assessment! Unfortunately as i'm not fit for work in the 'real' world, I would be commiting Fraud if I tried to claim Jobseekers Allowance or whatever it's called these days! I've Appealed the decision but despite the best mediocre efforts of my GP in trying to put right his previous ballsup answering the ESA Inquisition letter, they wont change their decision and the Appeals System is running months behind schedule so we will be forced to survive on a near 50% cut in our Benefit income for the forseeable future with little or no guarantee of winning the Appeal. As from today we are to all intents and purposes Bankrupt as we cannot meet our Mortgage or other outgoings by a Country Mile! We have had our home on the Market since just before the World went Financially tits up this last time, as I saw which way the wind was blowing and had hoped to sell up & buy a little 2 up 2 down outright so we at least had the peace of mind of having a secure roof over our head. Any savings we had have slowly leaked away keeping our head above water, I was paying almost £60 a month for Prescription medicines and appliances until I contracted the Big C and became eligible for free prescriptions for 5 years. I have 2 years left of this much appreciated & very welcome financial respite but when it comes to an end I will have the original drugs etc to pay for plus the extra stuff I now need to manage the after effects of my latest surgery. With any luck ( and i'm not joking in the slightest!) I will die in my sleep sooner rather than later as i'm worth more dead than alive and swmbo would have the house paid for. Whatever your views on the Welfare State, NHS or 'Benefits' in general, your life could be turned upside down at any time by accident, illness or circumstances beyond your control and the 'safety net' which we've paid into to cushion us in time of need is no longer there for the majority who are deserving of it. This Pathetic excuse for a Government & their equally Pathetic predecessors couldn't organise a pissup in a brewery! It makes me ashamed to be British! >:(
i was told 8 years ago i would never be called for an assement again . but now i have to go through it again i dont go trough a gp , its the specalist who treats me . thats why i cant work cant lift and carry stuff .so what job can i get at my age >:( >:( >:(
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I said several weeks ago that when the Government Benefit Cuts started the Philrich household would be in deep do-do! Well from today I am Officially classed as being fit for work despite having no Medical assessment! Unfortunately as i'm not fit for work in the 'real' world, I would be commiting Fraud if I tried to claim Jobseekers Allowance or whatever it's called these days! I've Appealed the decision but despite the best mediocre efforts of my GP in trying to put right his previous ballsup answering the ESA Inquisition letter, they wont change their decision and the Appeals System is running months behind schedule so we will be forced to survive on a near 50% cut in our Benefit income for the forseeable future with little or no guarantee of winning the Appeal. As from today we are to all intents and purposes Bankrupt as we cannot meet our Mortgage or other outgoings by a Country Mile! We have had our home on the Market since just before the World went Financially tits up this last time, as I saw which way the wind was blowing and had hoped to sell up & buy a little 2 up 2 down outright so we at least had the peace of mind of having a secure roof over our head. Any savings we had have slowly leaked away keeping our head above water, I was paying almost £60 a month for Prescription medicines and appliances until I contracted the Big C and became eligible for free prescriptions for 5 years. I have 2 years left of this much appreciated & very welcome financial respite but when it comes to an end I will have the original drugs etc to pay for plus the extra stuff I now need to manage the after effects of my latest surgery. With any luck ( and i'm not joking in the slightest!) I will die in my sleep sooner rather than later as i'm worth more dead than alive and swmbo would have the house paid for. Whatever your views on the Welfare State, NHS or 'Benefits' in general, your life could be turned upside down at any time by accident, illness or circumstances beyond your control and the 'safety net' which we've paid into to cushion us in time of need is no longer there for the majority who are deserving of it. This Pathetic excuse for a Government & their equally Pathetic predecessors couldn't organise a pissup in a brewery! It makes me ashamed to be British! >:(
Phil, I am in drink so comments are limited, I can, as you know empathise with your situation..... >:( :-X I did not realise free scripts, which I also get, were time limited... :o
Speak with your local government welfare rights people, they may be able to advise, they are expecting an onslaught of clients yet no additional funding has been provided by Government..... >:( >:(
I anticipate loosing benefits, but will be a couple of years; I have said a number of times, I can understand what the government are trying to achieve, well intentioned but not at all thought out, going to hit many innocent applicants..... >:( >:( >:(
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I was paying almost £60 a month for Prescription medicines
So why on earth did you not get a pre-paid prescription certificate?
I have to say everybody sits and moans about cuts but nobody ever comes up with an answer as to where the money is coming from to if the cuts are not made!
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I was paying almost £60 a month for Prescription medicines
So why on earth did you not get a pre-paid prescription certificate?
I have to say everybody sits and moans about cuts but nobody ever comes up with an answer as to where the money is coming from to if the cuts are not made!
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I know exactly what you are saying, Mark....but all the cuts seem to be hitting the least well off all the time. I am lucky in my situation that it does not affect me ( only standard fuel rises etc, etc)
But in my observations, I fail to see where anyone with a bit of wealth is giving up anything or suffering in any way.
The system itself is silly. As regards free prescriptions....my wife gets free prescriptions (has done for years)....but my son who suffers with asthma, which can be life threatening, does not. As my wife says, she would have willingly given up hers so my son had free prescriptions.
If there was proper independent audit on the government itself, what they award themselves, what they spend within government itself on vehicles, decorating, entertainment etc, etc, I bet there there would be millions that could be saved.
They should learn to make do with Tesco Value, the same as the rest of the population are expected to.
Did you see I.D.Smith spouting about how he could make do on £53 per week. He soon got off of that subject!!!!!
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There wouldn't be a problem with welfare in this country if the money was genuinely given to the people that needed it, unfortunately though, I reckon more than half of all the claimants are spongers that are knowingly taking money off taxpayers. Looks like we've saved a fair bit of money on the 900,000 people that didn't want an assessment though eh? Wonder why ::)
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There wouldn't be a problem with welfare in this country if the money was genuinely given to the people that needed it, unfortunately though, I reckon more than half of all the claimants are spongers that are knowingly taking money off taxpayers. Looks like we've saved a fair bit of money on the 900,000 people that didn't want an assessment though eh? Wonder why ::)
Does that mean the 900,000 are now off benefits, or accept a reduction ??
Irrespective, I think the assessment process should be more 'hands on, personal' than I understand it to be :) Just giving out willy nilly 'fit for work' notices is out of order imo :)
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Wether you like maggie thatcher or not.....the people of our country stood up against the poll tax (good or bad as it was ) and she had to back down..so if as a nation if we all stood up to this cameron shower surely he would have to think again on his idiotic changes to the welfare state and bring in a more fairer way of sorting the scroungers from the genuine claiments and then the monies would go to the most deserved people where it should go.After all isnt that why we have a welfare state in the first place......not for this load of pratts to to deprive the genuine sick.....disabled...unemployed people of our country.....disgusted...... :( :( :o :o ??? ???
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I was paying almost £60 a month for Prescription medicines
So why on earth did you not get a pre-paid prescription certificate?
I have to say everybody sits and moans about cuts but nobody ever comes up with an answer as to where the money is coming from to if the cuts are not made!
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I know exactly what you are saying, Mark....but all the cuts seem to be hitting the least well off all the time. I am lucky in my situation that it does not affect me ( only standard fuel rises etc, etc)
But in my observations, I fail to see where anyone with a bit of wealth is giving up anything or suffering in any way.
The system itself is silly. As regards free prescriptions....my wife gets free prescriptions (has done for years)....but my son who suffers with asthma, which can be life threatening, does not. As my wife says, she would have willingly given up hers so my son had free prescriptions.
If there was proper independent audit on the government itself, what they award themselves, what they spend within government itself on vehicles, decorating, entertainment etc, etc, I bet there there would be millions that could be saved.
They should learn to make do with Tesco Value, the same as the rest of the population are expected to.
Did you see I.D.Smith spouting about how he could make do on £53 per week. He soon got off of that subject!!!!!
Of course he can eating and drinking in the susidised House of Commons >:(
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He's a prime example of what a bunch of smug corrupt tossers that they ALL are ::)
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the goverment have decided what they are going to do and they dont care who or what it dose to people that need help as far as fhey are concerned the sooner we are dead the better for them
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I was paying almost £60 a month for Prescription medicines
So why on earth did you not get a pre-paid prescription certificate?
I have to say everybody sits and moans about cuts but nobody ever comes up with an answer as to where the money is coming from to if the cuts are not made!
I know exactly what you are saying, Mark....but all the cuts seem to be hitting the least well off all the time. I am lucky in my situation that it does not affect me ( only standard fuel rises etc, etc)
But in my observations, I fail to see where anyone with a bit of wealth is giving up anything or suffering in any way.
The system itself is silly. As regards free prescriptions....my wife gets free prescriptions (has done for years)....but my son who suffers with asthma, which can be life threatening, does not. As my wife says, she would have willingly given up hers so my son had free prescriptions.
If there was proper independent audit on the government itself, what they award themselves, what they spend within government itself on vehicles, decorating, entertainment etc, etc, I bet there there would be millions that could be saved.
They should learn to make do with Tesco Value, the same as the rest of the population are expected to.
Did you see I.D.Smith spouting about how he could make do on £53 per week. He soon got off of that subject!!!!!
Thing is its not millions we need to save, its tens of billions.
Bottom line is that the welfare costs are huge:
http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/year_spending_2014UKbn_12bc1n_4049#ukgs302
and clearly some are abusing the system.
If we are to maintain education and healthcare spending then the rest has to suffer.....so which is it to be.
Tax the very well off and they will bugger off or simply offshore so that wont work.
It pains me to say it but, for me (note my opinion), if you are out of work and on benefits then it should be just enough to live on and the evidence I see walking through the school where the wife works demonstrates that this is not the case.
And clearly there are special cases due to illness and disability which should get extra's, I have no issues with this.
Also, anybody who thinks any government which gets in is going to alter this is in cuckoo land, we are deeper in the Poo then most can comprehend due to a legacy of Mr Blair and Brown buying votes by bowering cash (and not the scape goat bankers as the spin doctors would have you think).
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I was paying almost £60 a month for Prescription medicines
So why on earth did you not get a pre-paid prescription certificate?
I have to say everybody sits and moans about cuts but nobody ever comes up with an answer as to where the money is coming from to if the cuts are not made!
A 12 month PPC costs £104.00 and will save you money if you need more than 14 items in a year (2 months @£60 and you would already be saving)
http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcosts/Pages/PPC.aspx
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I feel for you all the way Phil....its a bloody disgrace. >:(
Does Cameron really think he has a hells hope of getting back in (on the supposition he lasts that long) >:( >:( >:(
+1 :y :y
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Its a job that badly needs to be done,but unfortunately it seems to be getting done badly. :(
I actually have some respect for IDS,and I think he has initially put a lot of time and thought into the problems,but once the civil servants,councils,companies hired in to do the work etc. have got their hands on it,the whole thing has gone badly wrong.
I was surprised to see that IDS stated last week that the whole exercise isnt actually going to save any money in the end,as the reductions on one thing are going to be swallowed up by increases on another thing.He gave the impression of someone who had almost given up trying.
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I have also heard it said in the media several times in the last few days that the majority of people recieving benefits are actually in work.If true,that to me indicates exactly what is wrong with this country.Its not welfare,its state control and redistribution of peoples own money.
Rather than tax people to the hilt and then pay them benefits,just simply tax them much less in the first place,and trust them to be the best person to utilise the money they have earned.
That would mean a lot less pen pushers sitting behind desks on good salaries and index linked pensions though,so I dont suppose it will ever happen.Even under this supposedly Conservative govt. >:(
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Im on a roll now. ::) ;D
As for prescriptions.People in England now have to pay almost £8 per item while people in the other countries in the U.K. dont pay a penny.Its completely outrageous. >:( >:( >:(
A level playing field for all British citizens,or let the seperatists have their way and break up the union.But once they have got their way,no subsidies whatsoever under any circumstances. ;)
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I was paying almost £60 a month for Prescription medicines
So why on earth did you not get a pre-paid prescription certificate?
I have to say everybody sits and moans about cuts but nobody ever comes up with an answer as to where the money is coming from to if the cuts are not made!
[/highlight]
I know exactly what you are saying, Mark....but all the cuts seem to be hitting the least well off all the time. I am lucky in my situation that it does not affect me ( only standard fuel rises etc, etc)
But in my observations, I fail to see where anyone with a bit of wealth is giving up anything or suffering in any way.
The system itself is silly. As regards free prescriptions....my wife gets free prescriptions (has done for years)....but my son who suffers with asthma, which can be life threatening, does not. As my wife says, she would have willingly given up hers so my son had free prescriptions.
If there was proper independent audit on the government itself, what they award themselves, what they spend within government itself on vehicles, decorating, entertainment etc, etc, I bet there there would be millions that could be saved.
They should learn to make do with Tesco Value, the same as the rest of the population are expected to.
Did you see I.D.Smith spouting about how he could make do on £53 per week. He soon got off of that subject!!!!!
Yep.......and the bedroom tax is yet another example. In complete contrast Cameron and Osborne went out of their way to give a tax cut to the super rich.
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Im on a roll now. ::) ;D
As for prescriptions.People in England now have to pay almost £8 per item while people in the other countries in the U.K. dont pay a penny.Its completely outrageous. >:( >:( >:(
A level playing field for all British citizens,or let the seperatists have their way and break up the union.But once they have got their way,no subsidies whatsoever under any circumstances. ;)
Agreed. Not to mention free education north of the border.
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There wouldn't be a problem with welfare in this country if the money was genuinely given to the people that needed it, unfortunately though, I reckon more than half of all the claimants are spongers that are knowingly taking money off taxpayers. Looks like we've saved a fair bit of money on the 900,000 people that didn't want an assessment though eh? Wonder why ::)
I read this and frankly im disgusted >:( >:( >:( >:( These scroungers should be brought to justice and pay the money back >:( >:( A lot of people have been denied the help because all these toss pots have been claiming out of an open pot . But no ! They will give up the benefits they stole and never brought to justice , thats why this countries in a mess :(
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Something else to look at >:(
The latest figures from the Department for Work and Pensions show that 1,830 incapacity benefit claimants are obese, 42,360 suffer from alcoholism and 37,480 are listed under ‘drug abuse’.
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Poor ian is being picked on for opening his mouth ;D ;D Do a refresh/reload :y supporters amount moves so quick
http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/iain-duncan-smith-iain-duncan-smith-to-live-on-53-a-week
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It isnt a bedroom tax,it has been labelled that by the opposition.Labour actually proposed a proper bedroom tax in 2011.They proposed taxing elderly people whose kids had flown the nest out of the homes they had bought and paid for.
The tax cut for the super rich is an attempt to make the U.K. an attractive place for wealth creators.During the whole of the New Labour years, taxes for the rich were lower than they are now,apart from the last few weeks when they put it up to lay a booby trap for the incoming govt.When they put the higher rate of tax up it didnt generate a penny in extra revenue.
Im no fan of Osborne at all,but I found it difficult to disagree with almost everything he said.
Talk is cheap though,and he has been found wanting - badly - in his task of creating a climate in which the economy will grow.
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Our economy wont grow given its demic whilst a global recession remains and hence why attempting to grow by throwing public funds at it wont work also.
What I would like to see is public contracts going to Uk jobs
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I was paying almost £60 a month for Prescription medicines
So why on earth did you not get a pre-paid prescription certificate?
I have to say everybody sits and moans about cuts but nobody ever comes up with an answer as to where the money is coming from to if the cuts are not made!
Mark, please don't patronise me, if you take the trouble to re read my post again you will see I stated I was paying almost £60 a month for Prescription medicines and appliances . The latter are not available on prescription from the NHS and are damned expensive regardless of how much income you have, and of course I obtained a Prepaid Certificate. You seem to believe by your general demeanor to the less fortunate in Society that they are all leeching off the State and by definition you personally, and everyone else in work and paying tax! Well I was a worker and taxpayer too until an injury at work caused by an idiot not doing his job properly and hiding the resulting bodge led to my disabilities. Yes the Benefits System is being abused by the breakless, workshy and those who lie and deceive their way through life, but neither I nor many many thousands of others fall into any of those categories! Instead of tackling the REAL problems this Country faces this lot has taken a sledgehammer to crack all the nuts, not just those that need breaking!
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i agree that things cant go on the way they are . get the ones that abuse the system but why put people like me and EMD and others that have no choise but to live on benefits though no fault of there own be tarred with the same brush and labled scroungers its not as if we dont want to work i would love to get up in the morning and go to work my old boss is and has allways said if ever you can work theirs your old job back it breaks my heart to know that i cant provide for my family any more and have to rely on handouts .i realy do feel like say bugger it and topping my self what stops me doing it is not seeing my grandaughter growing up
[rant over]
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As a disabled person myself and having to attend various medical reviews over the years i found the ATOS one a joke. The office i had to attend was 30 miles away and on the 3rd floor. I found the staff very rued and uncaring. Most of the assessment staff are junior 2/3 year nurses with no specialise training. My assessment started from the waiting room by watching me via the CCTV, once in the medical room the nurse was not interested in any of the letters i had from the GP or the consults i am under or the medication am on or what was wrong with me including informing her my left leg was removed from the knee down. Part of the test was a movement assessment. I was asked to point my toes up whilst in the seating position. When i told her i couldn't do it with my left leg she wanted to know why. At this point i was getting really pi** off, so i took my false leg off and slammed in on her desk. Oh she said you've got a prosthetic leg. Hello love try listening to what i told you within 5 minute of this mockery started. Then she complained that i refused to hop to the bench with just my sock on across a slippery lino floor. Am tiring to get better not smash my head on the floor.
Wanting to know what she had written about me i asked the DLA office for a copy of the report. It took ATSO 3 months to send the report to the DLA office. The report was a joke, i seemed to be written by someone else who was not at the medical. There was no mention i had a prosthetic leg and use a stick to walk or the 3 major heart attacks i had last year and the other problems i suffer from.
Lucky the DLA know i only have one leg and problems with the other but my case worker wanted to known how i grew another leg. I just told her i had eaten all my greens each day.
My conclusion of ATSO is it a not professional and caring company but is only interested in the monies gained from their government contract. The feedback and programmes i seen about them isn't that favourable to say the least.
As some of you know i work in France most of the year travelling back and forth, but i am employed by Pirelli UK and pay full UK taxes. Thank God never had to claim unemployment or other benefits.
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As a disabled person myself and having to attend various medical reviews over the years i found the ATOS one a joke. The office i had to attend was 30 miles away and on the 3rd floor. I found the staff very rued and uncaring. Most of the assessment staff are junior 2/3 year nurses with no specialise training. My assessment started from the waiting room by watching me via the CCTV, once in the medical room the nurse was not interested in any of the letters i had from the GP or the consults i am under or the medication am on or what was wrong with me including informing her my left leg was removed from the knee down. Part of the test was a movement assessment. I was asked to point my toes up whilst in the seating position. When i told her i couldn't do it with my left leg she wanted to know why. At this point i was getting really pi** off, so i took my false leg off and slammed in on her desk. Oh she said you've got a prosthetic leg. Hello love try listening to what i told you within 5 minute of this mockery started. Then she complained that i refused to hop to the bench with just my sock on across a slippery lino floor. Am tiring to get better not smash my head on the floor.
Wanting to know what she had written about me i asked the DLA office for a copy of the report. It took ATSO 3 months to send the report to the DLA office. The report was a joke, i seemed to be written by someone else who was not at the medical. There was no mention i had a prosthetic leg and use a stick to walk or the 3 major heart attacks i had last year and the other problems i suffer from.
Lucky the DLA know i only have one leg and problems with the other but my case worker wanted to known how i grew another leg. I just told her i had eaten all my greens each day.
My conclusion of ATSO is it a not professional and caring company but is only interested in the monies gained from their government contract. The feedback and programmes i seen about them isn't that favourable to say the least.
i know exactly how you feel mate all igot from them was why cant you climd the stairs to the 4th floor because im in a wheelchair and theres no lift working when they sent sombody down he said they didnt tell me you had a wheelchair i just looked at him and said thats what ive been trying to tell you for 30 mins it took my doctor before they would accept that i was in one evan though the bloke had seen me they sent me home 4 days later got a letter saying that they woulnt call me for an inyerveiw again how thick can you get the bloke behind the receptiun dest actualy said to the bloke "are you stupid or do they pay you to be thick the guy in a bloody chair how do you expecthim to climb staird" he said some of them do
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Ive got to go back in 3 years but by that time my other leg will of been removed.So ill make sure ive got a large motorised chair that wont fit in lifts.
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Ive got to go back in 3 years but by that time my other leg will of been removed.So ill make sure ive got a large motorised chair that wont fit in lifts.
:D :D :D :D :D :D you can borrow mine :D :D :D
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Thinking along the line of the Top Gear ones
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My Polish friend tells me that he knows a fellow Pole (and does not agree with his behaviour) who is a self employed tradesman, comes over here very occasionally, has a UK address - AND claims and gets UK child allowance for the whole year.
What are our Border people/Social Security doing?
Where does correction of this outright scam feature in reallocating funds to the needy?
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That's the EU for you. Herd a lot of Eastern block members do this. What they get in Child benefit is sometimes more than they earn a week at work. This is the type of "travelling benefit is the one that needs to stop
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the proplem is years old
is it right that someone who has lived in a council house all her life,now her husbands dead and the children have left now lives by herself in a 3 bedroom house with a garden?
while theres familys in bed and breakfast?
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No it's the fault government for selling off all the council houses in the past. There's just no places to move to if you need to down size. My mothering law after her youngest moved out asked the council for smaller place to down size but all they have is 2 and 3 bedroom places.
Bedroom tax is the new window tax of the 17th century.
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I have to say everybody sits and moans about cuts but nobody ever comes up with an answer as to where the money is coming from to if the cuts are not made!
Get the money from the 1% not the 99%. The 1% only hoard it or spend it on high added value low total labour trinkets that don't help the economy. Give some money to the 99% they'll spend it on high labour items and create jobs, virtous circle. Or at least invest in some infrastructure like roads and houses. Austerity on the 99% is a vicious circle, reduces demand, reduces jobs, that reduces demand, reduces jobs etc....
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Sadly, although it will affect a proportion of deserving people, this is the only way forward. The system as it previously stood is not sustainable. The country simply cannot afford it. Borrowing yet more, Labour style, is not even an answer, let alone a viable or realistic one.
Something has to give. It just happens that this month, its the benefits system.
To give some idea of the current problem, closing the NHS completely would not solve the outgoings > income problem that the country faces.
As said, it will affect some genuine claimants, but benefits has become a bloody career for far too many. And for too long. Even in the 80s/90s when I did phones, those on benefits were the ones with the big cars and satelite TV, neither of which I could get close to affording at the time, so I put up with either no car, or a small car, and just the 4 channels on the telly. Go into Bletchley post office before the benefits were paid directly into accounts, you'd see the career slappers (teenage mums, 3 kids) cash their giro, then go an buy a load of lottery scratchcards and fags from the post office's mini shop counter.
Sorry, it has to change, so I applaud the governments attempt. Flawed? Undoubtedly. But its a step in the right direction.
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Thinking along the line of the Top Gear ones
yup thats the one ive got :D :D :D
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Yes agreed its got to change but they are tarring all with the same brush and thats where its wrong ... labeling genuine people in need with people like this
The latest figures from the Department for Work and Pensions show that 1,830 incapacity benefit claimants are obese, 42,360 suffer from alcoholism and 37,480 are listed under ‘drug abuse’.
Plus all the ones that have just given up the benefits as they know they wont pass the new medical >:(
Its a disgrace , i see it every day people on DLA that walk around with a walking stick on their arm not needing the use of it but getting all the benefits , new cars and holidays 3 times a year >:( these are the ones that have lined their pockets for years that have now just handed in their entitlement >:(
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Poor ian is being picked on for opening his mouth ;D ;D Do a refresh/reload :y supporters amount moves so quick
http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/iain-duncan-smith-iain-duncan-smith-to-live-on-53-a-week
They've just upped the number required from 300k to 500k - #waraswizz
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Sadly, although it will affect a proportion of deserving people, this is the only way forward........
... trimmed
Have to agree but do feel for those that are affected by the unilateral approach being taken.
I do hold some hope though that those truly deserving ,especially as stated on here, will see this re-addressed in the near future.
Write to your Councillor, MP, local and national press and go blogging. It would appear that public opinion is having some effect on policy as we head towards the next round of local, European and general elections ::)
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Sadly, although it will affect a proportion of deserving people, this is the only way forward........
... trimmed
Have to agree but do feel for those that are affected by the unilateral approach being taken.
I do hold some hope though that those truly deserving ,especially as stated on here, will see this re-addressed in the near future.
Write to your Councillor, MP, local and national press and go blogging. It would appear that public opinion is having some effect on policy as we head towards the next round of local, European and general elections ::)
Have to agree as well, it's the way forward, we cannot afford the system we have now. Too many people try to screw as much as they can :(
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i just wish i could tell them to stick it up the0r arse
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Yes agreed its got to change but they are tarring all with the same brush and thats where its wrong ... labeling genuine people in need with people like this The latest figures from the Department for Work and Pensions show that 1,830 incapacity benefit claimants are obese, 42,360 suffer from alcoholism and 37,480 are listed under ‘drug abuse’.
Plus all the ones that have just given up the benefits as they know they wont pass the new medical >:(
Its a disgrace , i see it every day people on DLA that walk around with a walking stick on their arm not needing the use of it but getting all the benefits , new cars and holidays 3 times a year >:( these are the ones that have lined their pockets for years that have now just handed in their entitlement >:(
Where on earth do you get that from? Comments like that do not help at all.... >:( I am amazed that in this day and age people still assume that a disabled person with mobility difficulties should be in a wheel chair or even use a walking stick, if you do not understand why people get 'Mobility' then imho you should not Judge.................. :)
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TINA was crap when it was first said and it's crap now. Don't believe that austerity for the poor is the answer. The answer is a modest redistribution of wealth.
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TINA was crap when it was first said and it's crap now. Don't believe that austerity for the poor is the answer. The answer is a modest redistribution of wealth.
That's been tried Labour put the top rate of income tax up to 50%, the number paying the top rate has gone down from 16,000 to 6,000 with a massive drop on that collected, so you can't you will just collect less, it is the same with fuel, booze, fags, stamp duty, flights etc they are all the wrong side of the Laffer curve, so Government tax targets have been missed. Once taxes are too high people, many through necessity, will change their lives and lifestyles to pay less. Governments have always found it very difficult to get percentage of taxes collected in the UK above 38% of GDP, they have currently got it up to just under 43% of GDP, but are spending a disgraceful 49% of GDP.
Interest payments were £16bn in 2008, they are now £44bn and will rise by 2016 to £64bn a year. £64bn is 50% of NHS budget which is the second largest budget after Welfare at about £220bn. Now you can do these changes now and hope the economy grows enough to survive (it probably won't) or the IMF or Troika will do it for the UK, which if like Greece will wipe out 25% of industry and GDP, with 25% unemployment so your welfare, interest and debts are even more onerous, with many hard decisions forced by the IMF and Troika. This will see an explosion of beggars, soup kitchens and food parcel charities. There will be across the board welfare and pension cuts of 25-50% and many more pensioners dying through illness, winter fuel poverty and when the wind doesn't blow power cuts, so the lifespan for UK citizens starts to drop.
Many unemployed in Greece have gone back to their traditional village smallholdings that they left to earn more money in the cities. I hope many of you have this luxury of a smallholding so when you are unemployed and the benefits are £25 a week and it doesn't cover your food bills you have land to grow crops on.
Eastern Europe and to a lessor extent Southern Europe have much lower population densities than the UK and until very, very recently had a large percentage of the population working the land, many with village smallholdings, which they still own.
I wish I could see a good outcome for this country but I can't, which is why I'm one of the rats leaving the sinking ship, while the Government is busy spending most of its time rearranging the deck chairs on the deck.
Before you say I'm being pessimistic, it is happening around us already in the PIIGS and Cyprus, with more European countries lining up to join them.
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Yes agreed its got to change but they are tarring all with the same brush and thats where its wrong ... labeling genuine people in need with people like this The latest figures from the Department for Work and Pensions show that 1,830 incapacity benefit claimants are obese, 42,360 suffer from alcoholism and 37,480 are listed under ‘drug abuse’.
Plus all the ones that have just given up the benefits as they know they wont pass the new medical >:(
Its a disgrace , i see it every day people on DLA that walk around with a walking stick on their arm not needing the use of it but getting all the benefits , new cars and holidays 3 times a year >:( these are the ones that have lined their pockets for years that have now just handed in their entitlement >:(
Where on earth do you get that from? Comments like that do not help at all.... >:( I am amazed that in this day and age people still assume that a disabled person with mobility difficulties should be in a wheel chair or even use a walking stick, if you do not understand why people get 'Mobility' then imho you should not Judge.................. :)
People screwing the system and claiming benefits they never should be like its just been justified by all of those claiming have given it up as they know they wont pass the new medical , i wasnt on about the genuine people that really need the help . And i fully understand why genuine claimants get mobility and not just the ones in wheel chairs :)
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Slightly off-thread, but does anyone recall a nice little perk that went by the name of MIRAS?
Long gone now but most helpful at the time.
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That's been tried Labour put the top rate of income tax up to 50%, the number paying the top rate has gone down from 16,000 to 6,000 with a massive drop on that collected, so you can't you will just collect less, it is the same with fuel, booze, fags, stamp duty, flights etc they are all the wrong side of the Laffer curve, so Government tax targets have been missed. Once taxes are too high people, many through necessity, will change their lives and lifestyles to pay less.
As I recall the government never released the figures for the 50% tax but even Obsourne did admit it raised something, the effect was not negative: "It raises at most a fraction of what we were told, and it may raise nothing at all." (Budget speech 21 March 2012) The rich will always avoid tax (they currently pay less than us, see Sunday Times article below) but that's not a reason to stop trying to make them pay it. Just one example the mansion tax would be pretty unavoidable; they can't move their mansions abroad.
Here are some respected economists views on 'austerity' as a cure: http://falseeconomy.org.uk/cure/what-do-the-experts-say (http://falseeconomy.org.uk/cure/what-do-the-experts-say)
'Tax is for the little people'
From The Sunday Times
September 16, 2007
Treasury reveals tax burden is heaviest on poor
Holly Watt
BRITAIN’S richest people are paying 4p in the pound less in tax than any other section of the population, according to new figures released by the Treasury.
The data show the top 1% of households hand over 31% of their income when all direct and indirect taxes are accounted for, compared with an average of 35% for everyone else.
Much of the gap has opened up because, while the rich pay a higher rate of income tax, they pay a smaller proportion of their income in indirect levies such as television licences and Vat on goods and services.
The Treasury analysis, which covers figures for 2005-6, the latest available, has been seized on by critics who believe the figures show Labour’s tax regime has excessively favoured the rich.
Vince Cable, the Liberal Democrat shadow chancellor, to whom the figures were released, said: “People at the very top pay a smaller percentage than people at the bottom. Despite the claims that the tax system is progressive, it seems that people right at the top are paying less.”
Cable is concerned that the tax burden has increased most on the lowest earners.
It is unclear whether the figures include the tax paid by people with nondomiciled status. If it does not, it may understate the disparity between the rich and the rest.
Gordon Brown has shied away from new taxes on the rich to avoid undermining the City and scaring off investors.
During the summer there was public controversy about the low rates of tax enjoyed by private equity tycoons, some of whom can pay as little as 10% on their earnings.
The controversy was stoked in June when Nicholas Ferguson, chairman of SVG Capital, admitted in an interview that he felt uncomfortable paying lower taxes than his cleaner.
“Any commonsense person would say that a highly paid private equity executive paying less tax than a cleaning lady or other low-paid workers . . . can’t be right,” he said.
Although the Labour government initially claimed it would promote a progressive tax system, whereby the highest paid contribute more in taxes, the figures undermine the claim.
For the lowest 10% of earners, the average annual income per household is £8,366, of which 44.2% is paid as tax.
At the other end of the spectrum, the top 10% of households receive an average £88,334 and pay 35% in tax. The highest-earning 1% have an income of more than £92,300. Households on the median income of £24,700 pay 35.3% in tax.
Mike Warburton, senior tax partner at Grant Thornton, the accountancy firm, said: “Up to certain income levels, whatever income people get they spend and get hit with taxes. But at the top end people start putting money into their savings and some of the big items of expenditure for these people - notably private school fees - do not attract Vat.”
The tax status of nondomiciled residents, who are taxed only on the investment income they remit to the UK, has also been questioned.
A number of donors and lenders to the Labour party have benefited from this status. They include Lakshmi Mittal, Britain’s richest man, Lord Paul, the industrialist, Sir Gulam Noon, the curry tycoon, and Sir Christopher Ondaatje, the publisher.
The provisions have been officially “under review” by the Treasury since 2002, but no conclusions have been published. Treasury documents published under the Freedom of Information Act showed that there were 77,000 people in Britain benefiting from nondomiciled status in 2002. The number is now put at nearly 200,000.
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Gentlemen..please form an orderly queue, drop your shorts, bend over and remember we're all in this together :o
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TINA was crap when it was first said and it's crap now. Don't believe that austerity for the poor is the answer. The answer is a modest redistribution of wealth.
We've run out of rich people, as we've been doing that for too long.
So the next step is to "encourage" those who can work to do so, and the way to do that is to cut the benefits of those who refuse for reasons that aren't really valid. And put a cap on the maximum amount of benefits a household had claim.
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And, even if all the rich were on massive income tax amounts, and for some bizarre reason decided not to frak orf elsewhere, it still wouldn't come close to paying for all those that claimed they needed the extra money that the benefits system gives.
Please, do the maths.
Benefits system is £220bn (US billions)
Number in employment in UK is £19m
That works out, just to pay for the benefits system, everyone who works has to pay £11k per year. It doesn't matter how many rich people you drive out of the country so we don't get their taxes screw, its not going to impact that figure much.
The other big money waster, NHS, is about half the budget of welfare, so thats about another £5-6k for every working person.
Its not sustainable. Thus UK plc is in the shit. Costs must be absolutely slaughtered.
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TINA was crap when it was first said and it's crap now. Don't believe that austerity for the poor is the answer. The answer is a modest redistribution of wealth.
We've run out of rich people, as we've been doing that for too long.
So the next step is to "encourage" those who can work to do so, and the way to do that is to cut the benefits of those who refuse for reasons that aren't really valid. And put a cap on the maximum amount of benefits a household had claim.
Totally agree... I think some folks don't actually know or understand the actual meaning of the words "benefit", "support", "allowance" etc .. and confuse them with the term "right"
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TINA was crap when it was first said and it's crap now. Don't believe that austerity for the poor is the answer. The answer is a modest redistribution of wealth.
We've run out of rich people, as we've been doing that for too long.
So the next step is to "encourage" those who can work to do so, and the way to do that is to cut the benefits of those who refuse for reasons that aren't really valid. And put a cap on the maximum amount of benefits a household had claim.
Totally agree... I think some folks don't actually know or understand the actual meaning of the words "benefit", "support", "allowance" etc .. and confuse them with the term "right"
But that is down to political history I'm afraid. When the mass employment industries were "reduced" and the government was perceived to have taken jobs away from the populous, the natural reaction of those ex-workers in the industrial areas of Britain left in the lurch was, "I'll now just take what I can in benefits and live on that if no one is prepared to give us jobs anymore". That culture still persists to this day as successive governments have failed to help the young and not so young to gain worthwhile, full time, employment. The feeling I'm sure is "They (the politicians) are only in it for themselves and what they can make, so we will take what we can as the poor of society!"
Until there is a fundamental shift in UK politics and the politicians that "represent" us there will be conflict between those that have and those that don't!
........and whilst we are on the subject of benefits..............where is Farage and UKIP on this? There has been silence from what I suspect is nothing but a one trick party who cannot apply themselves to actual policies and comment on situations that are close to home, and have not entered the fray on what is a crucial subject for hundreds of thousands. All they can comment about is the EU, and that is not what we need. I find that very disappointing.
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LZ has a point, although I don't fully agree myself...
...we have generations of people who's parents never worked, living purely off the benefits system, so its all they know.
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LZ has a point, although I don't fully agree myself...
...we have generations of people who's parents never worked, living purely off the benefits system, so its all they know.
3rd Generation in many cases now......... :-X
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LZ has a point, although I don't fully agree myself...
...we have generations of people who's parents never worked, living purely off the benefits system, so its all they know.
3rd Generation in many cases now......... :-X
Indeed. "Normality".
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i worked 6=7 days a week exept holidays i never claimed anything exept child benefit which was put in a bank acc for the kids when they grew up in 20008 xmas i came home from work had my tea the next thing i know was 3 days later waking up in hospital i havent been able to work scince i dont like claiming benefits but i have no choice we usded all our savings up in the 1st 6 months paying tne mortgage ect we then were able to claim benefits we lost our house to the mortguage rescue sceme they paid the mortguage off and claimed tha house the one we still live in they paid 1/2 what the house was worth that was what the mortguage was we lost everthing we had worked for in 25 yrs of marrige but it kept a roof over our heads i am not a scrounger i have no coice i wish i could go back to work again then i woulnt be a scrounger anymore you dont know how depresing this is when youve allways provided for your family then you cant i dont like been labled a bone idol git as one of the local councilars likes to call me but hes a dickhead anyway i spend 3 days aweek on dyalisis i cant walk no faether than the lenth of my front roon i cant evan dress my self evan whan ive been to the loo ive no nerves from my neck down but im in herendous pain from the nerves dying off mind you been numb dose have its advantages if you get my drift they gave me 6 months to live in 2009 so in hanging inthere and there maybe a chance of a transplant if i make Christmas so i now have somthing to aim for aswell as my grandaughter poppy and that bloody fox if it comes back
sorry for moaning
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The figures from the drop in 50% tax payers from 16,0000 to 6,000 and the overall revenue collected comes from HMRC.
The benefits system was originally setup to give people a hand when they had hit rock bottom from unemployment or illness until they were able to get on their feet and work again in most cases. There will always be the long term ill and disabled that will need help for the rest of their lives. Any decent humane society will do its best to support such unfortunate people. I feel that our universal benefits system, lets these people down where they are just a small part of a vast system, so they don't get the support they need and are unfortunately tarred with the same brush as the f'eckless and idle. In the early 1970's welfare was about £20bn, which was the size of our defense budget. Our defense budget in now around £30bn, while welfare has exploded to over ten times the size to almost £220bn, which along with our bloated NHS and education budgets are unsustainable.
Welfare was then hijacked by do-gooder politicians and organizations to create a dependency class / industry as their clients / voters, so the original intention has been lost along with any reasonable costs. As usual most of the problems have been caused by Labour Governments especially the last one with the three thick monkeys McRuin, Balls-up and Millipede at the centre of most of our current problems. McRuin's working tax-credits up to an income of £60,000, so you have a family, pay tax and then as a state client you get some back from the masses of civil servants taken on to administer it, that an efficient way to do things isn't it? Another McRuin plan, France spends about 7% of GDP on their health service, so McRuin decided we should spend the same, whether we could afford it or not, or whether it would improve the NHS or not was irrelevant. Most of the masses of money shoveled in was wasted on PFI repayments, the doubling of GP's wages and other wages for less work and administrators, so productivity dropped. We now get much less health benefit for each £ than we used to. Th third area was education for teaching assistants, PFI projects, grade inflation and the biggest drop in educational standards in a generation, with up to 30% of pupils being dysfunctional where they have not been taught basic English and Maths skills. Pretty much useless for employers in a skilled based society, so it is much better to employ immigrants. During BLiar's and McRuin's reign they rewarded their union paymasters well, so Civil Servants are now paid about 20% more than the equivalent private sector job.
Add into this situation the 'uman rights act and we have what was intended as a last ditch prop in time of need into absolute rights and benefits for all, which is where we now are.
Society good words are currently: 'uman rights, equality, fairness, benefits and welfare.
Society bad words: stand on your own feet, hard work, wealth creation, enterprise, entrepreneurial, making money, self-made riches and profit.
So while entrepreneurs like myself, view the country as a no growth, unacceptable high tax, basket case and move on to better places to do business, so the UK will have no growth and an ever widening balance of payments problem. So all those that want redistribution of wealth, so their is an equality of misery, I'm quite happy to let you get on with it. I have seen the results from this first hand in the ex-Soviet states and wish you the best of luck in creating your "heaven on earth" Cuba or North Korea. The 21st century important parts of the globe have or are moving on from failed socialism and getting their 6-15% growth a year. China creates a new economy the size of Greece every 3 months and the size of Italy every year and will overtake the US to be the world's largest economy in 2016. They went from a staving socialist failure to this by adopting capitalism about 30 years a go! Failing getting poorer by the second Europe is going in the opposite direction. While the BRICS create ever bigger cakes and mass wealth, which is raising living standards for all, the European politicians argue over the size of the crumbs each of us should get!
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The figures from the drop in 50% tax payers from 16,0000 to 6,000 and the overall revenue collected comes from HMRC.
There's a factcheck on that claim here http://fullfact.org/factchecks/labour_50p_tax_rate_millionaires_leave_country-28645 (http://fullfact.org/factchecks/labour_50p_tax_rate_millionaires_leave_country-28645) and here http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2012/11/28/the-telegraphs-claim-that-all-the-rich-have-run-away-because-of-50p-tax-is-completely-bogus/ (http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2012/11/28/the-telegraphs-claim-that-all-the-rich-have-run-away-because-of-50p-tax-is-completely-bogus/)
It seems it is not all it seems, if not even "completely bogus".
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i worked 6=7 days a week exept holidays i never claimed anything exept child benefit which was put in a bank acc for the kids when they grew up in 20008 xmas i came home from work had my tea the next thing i know was 3 days later waking up in hospital i havent been able to work scince i dont like claiming benefits but i have no choice we usded all our savings up in the 1st 6 months paying tne mortgage ect we then were able to claim benefits we lost our house to the mortguage rescue sceme they paid the mortguage off and claimed tha house the one we still live in they paid 1/2 what the house was worth that was what the mortguage was we lost everthing we had worked for in 25 yrs of marrige but it kept a roof over our heads i am not a scrounger i have no coice i wish i could go back to work again then i woulnt be a scrounger anymore you dont know how depresing this is when youve allways provided for your family then you cant i dont like been labled a bone idol git as one of the local councilars likes to call me but hes a dickhead anyway i spend 3 days aweek on dyalisis i cant walk no faether than the lenth of my front roon i cant evan dress my self evan whan ive been to the loo ive no nerves from my neck down but im in herendous pain from the nerves dying off mind you been numb dose have its advantages if you get my drift they gave me 6 months to live in 2009 so in hanging inthere and there maybe a chance of a transplant if i make Christmas so i now have somthing to aim for aswell as my grandaughter poppy and that bloody fox if it comes back
sorry for moaning
i know how you feel . i would rather be working but cant so we are stuck as scroungers .tarde with the same brush :y :y
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TINA was crap when it was first said and it's crap now. Don't believe that austerity for the poor is the answer. The answer is a modest redistribution of wealth.
We've run out of rich people, as we've been doing that for too long.
So the next step is to "encourage" those who can work to do so, and the way to do that is to cut the benefits of those who refuse for reasons that aren't really valid. And put a cap on the maximum amount of benefits a household had claim.
Totally agree... I think some folks don't actually know or understand the actual meaning of the words "benefit", "support", "allowance" etc .. and confuse them with the term "right"
But that is down to political history I'm afraid. When the mass employment industries were "reduced" and the government was perceived to have taken jobs away from the populous, the natural reaction of those ex-workers in the industrial areas of Britain left in the lurch was, "I'll now just take what I can in benefits and live on that if no one is prepared to give us jobs anymore". That culture still persists to this day as successive governments have failed to help the young and not so young to gain worthwhile, full time, employment. The feeling I'm sure is "They (the politicians) are only in it for themselves and what they can make, so we will take what we can as the poor of society!"
Until there is a fundamental shift in UK politics and the politicians that "represent" us there will be conflict between those that have and those that don't!
........and whilst we are on the subject of benefits..............where is Farage and UKIP on this? There has been silence from what I suspect is nothing but a one trick party who cannot apply themselves to actual policies and comment on situations that are close to home, and have not entered the fray on what is a crucial subject for hundreds of thousands. All they can comment about is the EU, and that is not what we need. I find that very disappointing.
Totally agree with that , the politicians dont represent the people anymore >:(
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i worked 6=7 days a week exept holidays i never claimed anything exept child benefit which was put in a bank acc for the kids when they grew up in 20008 xmas i came home from work had my tea the next thing i know was 3 days later waking up in hospital i havent been able to work scince i dont like claiming benefits but i have no choice we usded all our savings up in the 1st 6 months paying tne mortgage ect we then were able to claim benefits we lost our house to the mortguage rescue sceme they paid the mortguage off and claimed tha house the one we still live in they paid 1/2 what the house was worth that was what the mortguage was we lost everthing we had worked for in 25 yrs of marrige but it kept a roof over our heads i am not a scrounger i have no coice i wish i could go back to work again then i woulnt be a scrounger anymore you dont know how depresing this is when youve allways provided for your family then you cant i dont like been labled a bone idol git as one of the local councilars likes to call me but hes a dickhead anyway i spend 3 days aweek on dyalisis i cant walk no faether than the lenth of my front roon i cant evan dress my self evan whan ive been to the loo ive no nerves from my neck down but im in herendous pain from the nerves dying off mind you been numb dose have its advantages if you get my drift they gave me 6 months to live in 2009 so in hanging inthere and there maybe a chance of a transplant if i make Christmas so i now have somthing to aim for aswell as my grandaughter poppy and that bloody fox if it comes back
sorry for moaning
Exactly , the feeling is that everyone on benefits is a scrounger or at least labeled as one , putting you in the same group as those that are bone idle and have never worked or intend to . There are people that need help with their disabilities that wont get the help as the money pot has been drained by the bone ide ones with no disabilities :(
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i worked 6=7 days a week exept holidays i never claimed anything exept child benefit which was put in a bank acc for the kids when they grew up in 20008 xmas i came home from work had my tea the next thing i know was 3 days later waking up in hospital i havent been able to work scince i dont like claiming benefits but i have no choice we usded all our savings up in the 1st 6 months paying tne mortgage ect we then were able to claim benefits we lost our house to the mortguage rescue sceme they paid the mortguage off and claimed tha house the one we still live in they paid 1/2 what the house was worth that was what the mortguage was we lost everthing we had worked for in 25 yrs of marrige but it kept a roof over our heads i am not a scrounger i have no coice i wish i could go back to work again then i woulnt be a scrounger anymore you dont know how depresing this is when youve allways provided for your family then you cant i dont like been labled a bone idol git as one of the local councilars likes to call me but hes a dickhead anyway i spend 3 days aweek on dyalisis i cant walk no faether than the lenth of my front roon i cant evan dress my self evan whan ive been to the loo ive no nerves from my neck down but im in herendous pain from the nerves dying off mind you been numb dose have its advantages if you get my drift they gave me 6 months to live in 2009 so in hanging inthere and there maybe a chance of a transplant if i make Christmas so i now have somthing to aim for aswell as my grandaughter poppy and that bloody fox if it comes back
sorry for moaning
Exactly , the feeling is that everyone on benefits is a scrounger or at least labeled as one , putting you in the same group as those that are bone idle and have never worked or intend to . There are people that need help with their disabilities that wont get the help as the money pot has been drained by the bone ide ones with no disabilities :(
:y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y
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i worked 6=7 days a week exept holidays i never claimed anything exept child benefit which was put in a bank acc for the kids when they grew up in 20008 xmas i came home from work had my tea the next thing i know was 3 days later waking up in hospital i havent been able to work scince i dont like claiming benefits but i have no choice we usded all our savings up in the 1st 6 months paying tne mortgage ect we then were able to claim benefits we lost our house to the mortguage rescue sceme they paid the mortguage off and claimed tha house the one we still live in they paid 1/2 what the house was worth that was what the mortguage was we lost everthing we had worked for in 25 yrs of marrige but it kept a roof over our heads i am not a scrounger i have no coice i wish i could go back to work again then i woulnt be a scrounger anymore you dont know how depresing this is when youve allways provided for your family then you cant i dont like been labled a bone idol git as one of the local councilars likes to call me but hes a dickhead anyway i spend 3 days aweek on dyalisis i cant walk no faether than the lenth of my front roon i cant evan dress my self evan whan ive been to the loo ive no nerves from my neck down but im in herendous pain from the nerves dying off mind you been numb dose have its advantages if you get my drift they gave me 6 months to live in 2009 so in hanging inthere and there maybe a chance of a transplant if i make Christmas so i now have somthing to aim for aswell as my grandaughter poppy and that bloody fox if it comes back
sorry for moaning
Exactly , the feeling is that everyone on benefits is a scrounger or at least labeled as one , putting you in the same group as those that are bone idle and have never worked or intend to . There are people that need help with their disabilities that wont get the help as the money pot has been drained by the bone ide ones with no disabilities :(
What is happening EMD, and linked to my previous thread about "our" politicians, is that the Government are at the moment carrying out a traditional British political, governmental objective of "Divide and Rule".
The Coalition has successfully now set one section of our society against the other, as can indeed been seen in this particular thread that I have been watching with interest but without earlier comment. Whenever the current government of the day has faced a possible mass resistance to their rule, even a risk of revolution, they pick a policy on a subject that is guaranteed to split the possible "Rebel Ranks". On this occasion it is the issue of State Welfare Benefits which a large proportion of the population support, but the government knows an even greater majority want to be reformed when the financial climate is against it as of now. It is very clever politics, and in the distant past has stopped revolution in Britain since 1789.
However, bungling Dave has this time misjudged and mismanaged the situation, using "private enterprise" to carryout the reform at great expense - profit to them - with staggering inefficiency and bad decision making. The rush to even get the genuine sick back to work, as witnessed by some unfortunate members on here that I really feel for, is creating great injustice, much heartache to individuals, and even severe risk to physical, along with, mental health, with even fresh and real poverty created.
In the final assessment it will be proved that it will have cost many more millions of pounds to "implement" the ridiculous changes being adopted than ever saved from the welfare budget, although I am certain the Coalition will cover their tracks and assign the costs of ATOL, RBLI, and other private services under a different budget heading.
As stated before, British governments have successfully out maneuvered revolutionary movements in Britain over the last two hundred and twenty four years, but with the national anger growing, and severe frustration being caused to the masses with no creditable Labour Party true Socialist Policy to turn to, that run of good political management may well be coming to an end.
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Exactly , the feeling is that everyone on benefits is a scrounger or at least labelled as one ,
I don't think that anyone has said that.
putting you in the same group as those that are bone idle and have never worked or intend to . .....
But we all know someone from that group. The grown up kids of friends of ours are a good example. The daughter is 26 & has 4 girls (2 different fathers) 1st arrived as she just turned 16yr old. She's never worked, nor has her boyfriend. The son is 24 early on in his 'working life' had about a dozen jobs that all lasted a week or two .... he could never get there on time or at all. He then discovered that a 'bad back' would allow him to not work at all & has never done since. Neither him or his wife have ever worked since they've been together.
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Exactly , the feeling is that everyone on benefits is a scrounger or at least labelled as one ,
I don't think that anyone has said that.
Agreed, no mention of that.
The key is that benefits can be very generous and there are many who are career benefit leaches and it has to stop.
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The key is that benefits can be very generous and there are many who are career benefit leaches and it has to stop.
Exactly!
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The people who are leeching of the system should be the ones who feel stigmatised and are ostrisiced within their communities,but those days unfortunately seem to have gone,and a lot of people seem to have a "dont blame them" attitude to it.
Every pound they take which they arent really entitled to is a pound that coud go to someone who genuinely deserves it.
Personally,once they are proved beyond reasonable doubt to be on the scrounge,I would starve the bastids into earning their keep.
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Exactly , the feeling is that everyone on benefits is a scrounger or at least labelled as one ,
I don't think that anyone has said that.
Agreed, no mention of that.
The key is that benefits can be very generous and there are many who are career benefit leaches and it has to stop.
Exactly! like the Womb for Benefits in our Close, 5 kids, three non contributing fathers, living the life of riley. She gets top of the range electrical goods and furninture delivered etc, rent of £600 pm plust £1500 Council Tax paid. You can bet your life when the youngest gets to 3 she'll pop out another little illegimate afro-caribean. The rest of the houses are pensioners and it makes us bloody sick that we have to skimp and save and we've all paid into this crap system, and her father is a social worker to boot so he probably fills out all the claim forms for her. >:( >:( >:(
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The people who are leeching of the system should be the ones who feel stigmatised and are ostrisiced within their communities,but those days unfortunately seem to have gone,and a lot of people seem to have a "dont blame them" attitude to it.
Every pound they take which they arent really entitled to is a pound that coud go to someone who genuinely deserves it.
Personally,once they are proved beyond reasonable doubt to be on the scrounge,I would starve the bastids into earning their keep.
and that's part of the conundrum ... :(
Parents who scrounge/workshy/whatever ... remove "their" benefits .. and the children suffer.. so is it "right" that an innocent 2 year old is left cold and hungry because the parents are no good ?? How do you "starve the bastids" [sic] without harming the kids ??
Many solutions have been tried ... vouchers, heating keys, etc. etc. but none seem to work adequately.
We can all quote examples of how genuine folks appear to get caught and suffer, as well as those where apparently "claimants" are ripping us (the tax payer) off ... but solving the conundrum is not easy.
At least the present government are trying to do something, unlike the last lot who simply threw our money away in an attempt to "buy" the "benefit vote", and are still trying to do so.
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The people who are leeching of the system should be the ones who feel stigmatised and are ostrisiced within their communities,but those days unfortunately seem to have gone,and a lot of people seem to have a "dont blame them" attitude to it.
Every pound they take which they arent really entitled to is a pound that coud go to someone who genuinely deserves it.
Personally,once they are proved beyond reasonable doubt to be on the scrounge,I would starve the bastids into earning their keep.
.......but unfortunately that would mean that their kid's also starve to death. Is it their fault that their parents are lazy bastards?.
Mr Entwood has partially stolen my thunder. ;D
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Its the politicians that have forced the opinion that everyone on benefits is a scrounger , not anyone on here :y This opinion has enraged the people that genuinely need help , people that have been unfortunate in life and have to live off benefits as they have no other choice because they cant physically work anymore . Being labeled a scrounger when you have worked hard for a living before having to live off benefits is an insult :(
Im not sure this was a vote winning tactic for the folks in work as it appears a lot of people working are claiming some sort of benefit to exist as well :-\
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I completely agree that the last lot created a situation which was cynical to the point of being criminal. :y
As for the kids,its a very difficult situation I agree.Perhaps if the parents are completely breakless and irresponsible,it might be better to take the kids off them and try and place them with couples who would raise them in a responsible manner and give them a chance in life ?
I can remember my Dad being on the dole for a while when I was a kid.He was ashamed of it,he would park in a different street to the dole office and then have a quick glance to check no-one was watching and then nip in through the door as quick as he could.Im not saying that was right,but we have gone much too far in the opposite direction now,where its almost something to be proud of for some people.
No perfect solution,I agree.I also have a certain amount of respect for IDS,as he has spent years studying the problem and trying to come up with sensible solutions,and is imo a thoughtful and decent man.
The "industry" which has grown up around keeping the welfare state as it is,or growing,has gone into hyperdrive this week,and beating them back down under the rocks they crawled out from is going to be a big job.
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As for the kids,its a very difficult situation I agree.Perhaps if the parents are completely breakless and irresponsible,it might be better to take the kids off them and try and place them with couples who would raise them in a responsible manner and give them a chance in life ?...
..and, for the rest, workhouses with very comfortable subsidised creches attached seems to be the only answer. ;)
.. or a requirement to spend the day out actively seeking work, again, with subsidised childcare to ensure this isn't to the detriment of their welfare.
Something needs to break the cycle. If you have the option of being with your kids all day, everyday, receiving more money than you could possibly earn, where's the incentive to do anything else? There needs to be an unpleasant side to life as a career claimant. Even if caring for the kids is at great cost to the taxpayer, if it gets word onto the street playground that this isn't a life of riley, then it'll turn out to be a sound investment, IMHO.
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If you have the option of being with your kids all day, everyday, receiving more money than you could possibly earn, where's the incentive to do anything else? ....
and that's how the Mike Philpotts of the world with 17 kids live! I consider myself to be well paid ..... I'm sure I should receive an invite to the Tax Man's Christmas Ball each year ::) but now way could I have afforded to bring that lot up!
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They should be sterilized after two if unmarried. :y
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What is happening EMD, and linked to my previous thread about "our" politicians, is that the Government are at the moment carrying out a traditional British political, governmental objective of "Divide and Rule".
Thats exactly Tory policy - 'don't look at the 1% tax dodgers and bankers who caused the problem, look at the social security scroungers'. They have cynically looked at their private polls and decided to highlight poor people on benefits. They have also deliberately taken a sledgehammer to crack the small nut of benefit abusers with the intention of hitting a lot of genuine claimants.
It is interesting to see on this forum the genuine and moving posts from people on benefits, keep it up, it shames the kneejerk brigade.
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I'm not quite sure how you reconcile 1% tax dodgers and bankers causing the problem with the fact that social spending under the last government rose from 59.1 billion in 2000 to 110.9 billion in 2010
I'm really, really sure that the 1% tax dodgers and bankers didn't receive any of that money ???
But I'm happy to be proved wrong :)
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The banking crisis brought the current economic crisis forward by 5 years or so,no more no less. Our current problems are rooted in criminal mismanagement of the U.K. finances by Gordon McRuin. ;)
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don't look at the 1% tax dodgers and bankers who caused the problem, look at the social security scroungers
Not really, though they were acting in a way that would harm the banks when things turned sour... ...although they have become a convenient scapegoat to cover up the incompitences of some parts of the civil service.
The real reason that the UK is in such a bad position is the recklessness of the New Labour policies - punish manufacturers, encourage a service industry, and the real killer, recklessly massively increase borrowing during the good times, and not have a plan for when it was going to go Pete Tong (which it always was).
Now I'm just the stupid kid from the local comprehensive, but even I know that in the good times, you do what you can to have something for the rainy days.
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if you don't think the problem was caused by the banking collapse in Sept 2008 have a look at these
(http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u546/dbdbx/Image2_zps941e05b5.jpg)
(http://timetric.com/index/public-finances-net-debt-psf/ (http://timetric.com/index/public-finances-net-debt-psf/))
(http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u546/dbdbx/Image1_zps89b87051.jpg)
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i don't doubt the last goverment did'nt help with the economic problems we are now experienceing BUT it was the failing of the lehman brothers bank that was the catalyst for the economic problems....nothing to do with new labours policies as lehman brothers is an american bank based in america
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i don't doubt the last goverment did'nt help with the economic problems we are now experienceing BUT it was the failing of the lehman brothers bank that was the catalyst for the economic problems....nothing to do with new labours policies as lehman brothers is an american bank based in america
That brought things to a head, but, the way our economy was going it was inevitable sooner or later, IMHO. Had we had a more prudent government (now where have I heard that word before?) we would have ridden it out and been in reasonable shape now. :-(
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i don't doubt the last goverment did'nt help with the economic problems we are now experienceing BUT it was the failing of the lehman brothers bank that was the catalyst for the economic problems....nothing to do with new labours policies as lehman brothers is an american bank based in america
That brought things to a head, but, the way our economy was going it was inevitable sooner or later, IMHO. Had we had a more prudent government (now where have I heard that word before?) we would have ridden it out and been in reasonable shape now. :-(
i think you will find that started it and then it went down like as house of cards...
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That brought things to a head, but, the way our economy was going it was inevitable sooner or later, IMHO. Had we had a more prudent government (now where have I heard that word before?) we would have ridden it out and been in reasonable shape now. :-(
But have a look at the second graph I put up, UK national debt as a pecentage of Gross Domestic Product was fine until the crisis hit in 2008 and had been fairly steady since 1975.
The real underlying cause is investment in production with no corresponding increase in demand because the distribtion of wealth has been to the rich and away from the 99%. When wealth is distributed more evenly again demand will pick up and production will come back. Will be a long time coming under this governent though.
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i don't doubt the last goverment did'nt help with the economic problems we are now experienceing BUT it was the failing of the lehman brothers bank that was the catalyst for the economic problems....nothing to do with new labours policies as lehman brothers is an american bank based in america
I don't think Lehmans was the catalyst on its own. It was going to happen, if it wasn't Lehmans, it would have been someone else.
I could see a crash coming in the UK long before Lehmans. I suspect most could. We were already in a dangerous position soon after the new millenium, where people were having to use credit to pay off debts, and the government were virtually promoting it (and recklessly doing it themselves). One of 2 things was going to happen - hyperinflation or an unavailability of credit. We were living beyond our means as individuals and as a country.
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In the previous decade Brown had staggering amounts of money coming into the treasury,ironically mostly fuelled by the boom in the city. He not only blew the lot on worthless projects (but which bought labour votes),but he actually borrowed huge amounts of money as well.He was warned to keep reserves in the kitty for a rainy day but his response was that he had abolished boom and bust.The good times were never going to end.
When the rainy day came we were in a very weak and vulnerable position,and then it all collapsed like a house of cards.
He also personally created and hand picked the top brass for the FSA,which was supposed to have kept a close eye on and regulated as necessary,the financial sector.
After all that he promised the country that we would be he first major economy to recover. Again he couldnt have been more wrong.
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The real underlying cause is investment in production with no corresponding increase in demand because the distribtion of wealth has been to the rich and away from the 99%. When wealth is distributed more evenly again demand will pick up and production will come back. Will be a long time coming under this governent though.
Sadly, this idealism doesn't work in practice. All the failed socialist states prove that. Actually, this very thread about benefits proves that, to the detriment of the genuine needy.
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The real underlying cause is investment in production with no corresponding increase in demand because the distribtion of wealth has been to the rich and away from the 99%. When wealth is distributed more evenly again demand will pick up and production will come back. Will be a long time coming under this governent though.
Sadly, this idealism doesn't work in practice. All the failed socialist states prove that. Actually, this very thread about benefits proves that, to the detriment of the genuine needy.
Yep, it works about as well as hitting your manufacturing industry with ever more green taxes while China build cheap coal fired power stations. ::)
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The real underlying cause is investment in production with no corresponding increase in demand because the distribtion of wealth has been to the rich and away from the 99%. When wealth is distributed more evenly again demand will pick up and production will come back. Will be a long time coming under this governent though.
Sadly, this idealism doesn't work in practice. All the failed socialist states prove that. Actually, this very thread about benefits proves that, to the detriment of the genuine needy.
Yep, it works about as well as hitting your manufacturing industry with ever more green taxes while China build cheap coal fired power stations. ::)
I should clarify that. You have an ideal (or a strong motivation fuelled by brown paper envelopes ::)) and you put on the blinkers and follow it to the exclusion of everything else. Always the road to disaster, whatever you are trying to run.
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TINA was crap when it was first said and it's crap now. Don't believe that austerity for the poor is the answer. The answer is a modest redistribution of wealth.
We've run out of rich people, as we've been doing that for too long.
So the next step is to "encourage" those who can work to do so, and the way to do that is to cut the benefits of those who refuse for reasons that aren't really valid. And put a cap on the maximum amount of benefits a household had claim.
Totally agree... I think some folks don't actually know or understand the actual meaning of the words "benefit", "support", "allowance" etc .. and confuse them with the term "right"
........and whilst we are on the subject of benefits..............where is Farage and UKIP on this? There has been silence from what I suspect is nothing but a one trick party who cannot apply themselves to actual policies and comment on situations that are close to home, and have not entered the fray on what is a crucial subject for hundreds of thousands. All they can comment about is the EU, and that is not what we need. I find that very disappointing.
Is anyone going to answer me on my comments about UKIP? Or have the many UKIP supporters suddenly been stuck silent by facts? ::) ::) ::) ;)
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TINA was crap when it was first said and it's crap now. Don't believe that austerity for the poor is the answer. The answer is a modest redistribution of wealth.
We've run out of rich people, as we've been doing that for too long.
So the next step is to "encourage" those who can work to do so, and the way to do that is to cut the benefits of those who refuse for reasons that aren't really valid. And put a cap on the maximum amount of benefits a household had claim.
Totally agree... I think some folks don't actually know or understand the actual meaning of the words "benefit", "support", "allowance" etc .. and confuse them with the term "right"
........and whilst we are on the subject of benefits..............where is Farage and UKIP on this? There has been silence from what I suspect is nothing but a one trick party who cannot apply themselves to actual policies and comment on situations that are close to home, and have not entered the fray on what is a crucial subject for hundreds of thousands. All they can comment about is the EU, and that is not what we need. I find that very disappointing.
Is anyone going to answer me on my comments about UKIP? Or have the many UKIP supporters suddenly been stuck silent by facts? ::) ::) ::) ;)
i dont think they have any policys on the subject lizzie which is a shame realy
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I expect they are sitting quietly, working out their formula, whilst the 'big boys' wriggle and squirm, and batter each other.
Rumour has it that UKIP have taken a bulk order of dustpan and brushes to clear up the crap left by the others :y
Why get embroiled in someone else's sesspit until you have to
Vote UKIP :y
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TINA was crap when it was first said and it's crap now. Don't believe that austerity for the poor is the answer. The answer is a modest redistribution of wealth.
We've run out of rich people, as we've been doing that for too long.
So the next step is to "encourage" those who can work to do so, and the way to do that is to cut the benefits of those who refuse for reasons that aren't really valid. And put a cap on the maximum amount of benefits a household had claim.
Totally agree... I think some folks don't actually know or understand the actual meaning of the words "benefit", "support", "allowance" etc .. and confuse them with the term "right"
........and whilst we are on the subject of benefits..............where is Farage and UKIP on this? There has been silence from what I suspect is nothing but a one trick party who cannot apply themselves to actual policies and comment on situations that are close to home, and have not entered the fray on what is a crucial subject for hundreds of thousands. All they can comment about is the EU, and that is not what we need. I find that very disappointing.
Is anyone going to answer me on my comments about UKIP? Or have the many UKIP supporters suddenly been stuck silent by facts? ::) ::) ::) ;)
No, some of us have work to do.
Anyhow, here is Star Etheridge speaking on disablility to the UKIP conference in March. I haven't watched it all...as I say, I have work to do.
http://www.ukip.tv/?p=3847 (http://www.ukip.tv/?p=3847)
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TINA was crap when it was first said and it's crap now. Don't believe that austerity for the poor is the answer. The answer is a modest redistribution of wealth.
We've run out of rich people, as we've been doing that for too long.
So the next step is to "encourage" those who can work to do so, and the way to do that is to cut the benefits of those who refuse for reasons that aren't really valid. And put a cap on the maximum amount of benefits a household had claim.
Totally agree... I think some folks don't actually know or understand the actual meaning of the words "benefit", "support", "allowance" etc .. and confuse them with the term "right"
........and whilst we are on the subject of benefits..............where is Farage and UKIP on this? There has been silence from what I suspect is nothing but a one trick party who cannot apply themselves to actual policies and comment on situations that are close to home, and have not entered the fray on what is a crucial subject for hundreds of thousands. All they can comment about is the EU, and that is not what we need. I find that very disappointing.
Is anyone going to answer me on my comments about UKIP? Or have the many UKIP supporters suddenly been stuck silent by facts? ::) ::) ::) ;)
No, some of us have work to do.
Anyhow, here is Star Etheridge speaking on disablility to the UKIP conference in March. I haven't watched it all...as I say, I have work to do.
http://www.ukip.tv/?p=3847 (http://www.ukip.tv/?p=3847)
What does that mean Nick? :o :o :o :o
Do you think none of us work to? ::) ::) ::)
You write and write about so much obviously using your valuable time, but when challenged you come out with that type of statement!! ::) ::) ::) ::)
As I have said before it is easy to copy and paste links and spout off on your specialised subjects, but when somebody asks a sensible question you go all defensive! ::) ::) ::) ::)
I give up! I am certainly going to be too busy working to get involved with your threads again!
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Try this for a start
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/mar/22/ukip-benefits-claimants-tobacco-alcohol
VOTE Ukip
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TINA was crap when it was first said and it's crap now. Don't believe that austerity for the poor is the answer. The answer is a modest redistribution of wealth.
We've run out of rich people, as we've been doing that for too long.
So the next step is to "encourage" those who can work to do so, and the way to do that is to cut the benefits of those who refuse for reasons that aren't really valid. And put a cap on the maximum amount of benefits a household had claim.
Totally agree... I think some folks don't actually know or understand the actual meaning of the words "benefit", "support", "allowance" etc .. and confuse them with the term "right"
........and whilst we are on the subject of benefits..............where is Farage and UKIP on this? There has been silence from what I suspect is nothing but a one trick party who cannot apply themselves to actual policies and comment on situations that are close to home, and have not entered the fray on what is a crucial subject for hundreds of thousands. All they can comment about is the EU, and that is not what we need. I find that very disappointing.
Is anyone going to answer me on my comments about UKIP? Or have the many UKIP supporters suddenly been stuck silent by facts? ::) ::) ::) ;)
No, some of us have work to do.
Anyhow, here is Star Etheridge speaking on disablility to the UKIP conference in March. I haven't watched it all...as I say, I have work to do.
http://www.ukip.tv/?p=3847 (http://www.ukip.tv/?p=3847)
ATOS >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Good speach :y
Vote Ukip :y
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Try this for a start
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/mar/22/ukip-benefits-claimants-tobacco-alcohol
VOTE Ukip
Thank you Cleggy! :y :y :y
A bit old hat though, and the merits of such a policy are dubious and have dangerous implications. ;) ;)
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TINA was crap when it was first said and it's crap now. Don't believe that austerity for the poor is the answer. The answer is a modest redistribution of wealth.
We've run out of rich people, as we've been doing that for too long.
So the next step is to "encourage" those who can work to do so, and the way to do that is to cut the benefits of those who refuse for reasons that aren't really valid. And put a cap on the maximum amount of benefits a household had claim.
Totally agree... I think some folks don't actually know or understand the actual meaning of the words "benefit", "support", "allowance" etc .. and confuse them with the term "right"
........and whilst we are on the subject of benefits..............where is Farage and UKIP on this? There has been silence from what I suspect is nothing but a one trick party who cannot apply themselves to actual policies and comment on situations that are close to home, and have not entered the fray on what is a crucial subject for hundreds of thousands. All they can comment about is the EU, and that is not what we need. I find that very disappointing.
Is anyone going to answer me on my comments about UKIP? Or have the many UKIP supporters suddenly been stuck silent by facts? ::) ::) ::) ;)
No, some of us have work to do.
Anyhow, here is Star Etheridge speaking on disablility to the UKIP conference in March. I haven't watched it all...as I say, I have work to do.
http://www.ukip.tv/?p=3847 (http://www.ukip.tv/?p=3847)
ATOS >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Good speach :y
Vote Ukip :y
But what for EMD? What real substance are they going to really give us? ATOS may well continue under them as per the implications behind the story in Cleggy's link. Yes, they will get us out of the EU..........but how?............when?..............by what legal means? What other REAL policies have they got that will work if we commit ourselves to UKIP? I need more convincing, even though I want Cameron out (but not necessarily a "new" Conservative Party under fresh, strong, leadership with true values and commitment that WE the citizens want). ;) ;)
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in that speach no mention of policy just sugetions good speach nut nothing new UKIP going to stop me having the only pleasure ive got left that is smoking i smoke 1/2 oz a week what are they going to do about disabled benefits its not a hard nor trick question so what i can gather is there going to escort me to the shop to make sure i dont but any pleasure items and as far as i can see no policy on benefits just funny speaches flaming rediculas .... go on lizzie you give em stick cos i cant i like all disabled people we dont exist >:( >:( >:( >:
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just had a second letter from them ,medical is been cancelled because they just got more info of the hospital .cowboys >:( >:( >:(
-
TINA was crap when it was first said and it's crap now. Don't believe that austerity for the poor is the answer. The answer is a modest redistribution of wealth.
We've run out of rich people, as we've been doing that for too long.
So the next step is to "encourage" those who can work to do so, and the way to do that is to cut the benefits of those who refuse for reasons that aren't really valid. And put a cap on the maximum amount of benefits a household had claim.
Totally agree... I think some folks don't actually know or understand the actual meaning of the words "benefit", "support", "allowance" etc .. and confuse them with the term "right"
........and whilst we are on the subject of benefits..............where is Farage and UKIP on this? There has been silence from what I suspect is nothing but a one trick party who cannot apply themselves to actual policies and comment on situations that are close to home, and have not entered the fray on what is a crucial subject for hundreds of thousands. All they can comment about is the EU, and that is not what we need. I find that very disappointing.
Is anyone going to answer me on my comments about UKIP? Or have the many UKIP supporters suddenly been stuck silent by facts? ::) ::) ::) ;)
No, some of us have work to do.
Anyhow, here is Star Etheridge speaking on disablility to the UKIP conference in March. I haven't watched it all...as I say, I have work to do.
http://www.ukip.tv/?p=3847 (http://www.ukip.tv/?p=3847)
What does that mean Nick? :o :o :o :o
Do you think none of us work to? ::) ::) ::)
You write and write about so much obviously using your valuable time, but when challenged you come out with that type of statement!! ::) ::) ::) ::)
As I have said before it is easy to copy and paste links and spout off on your specialised subjects, but when somebody asks a sensible question you go all defensive! ::) ::) ::) ::)
I give up! I am certainly going to be too busy working to get involved with your threads again!
I'm sorry if I offended you, Lizzie, it was not my intention. :-[
Yes, I have been busy this afternoon, but your comment "a one trick party who cannot apply themselves to actual policies" actually irritated me a bit as I have several times on here given the link to UKIP's main manifesto (there is also a special 2013 Local Council Election manifesto on the same site). UKIP are not a one-trick party and have a number of very attractive policies (e.g. flat-rate taxation, abolition of the Climate Change Act, etc., etc.). Given that they do not have the wealth of the other mainstream parties, they cannot call upon the usual squadron of SpAds and PR machinery to react instantly to each and every headline on a daily basis. ;)
www.ukip.org (http://www.ukip.org)
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just had a second letter from them ,medical is been cancelled because they just got more info of the hospital .cowboys >:( >:( >:(
all that heart ace for nothing mate i recon that atos get a kick out of geting people all wsorked up then sending these letters out ... glad you dont gave to go
-
in that speach no mention of policy just sugetions good speach nut nothing new UKIP going to stop me having the only pleasure ive got left that is smoking i smoke 1/2 oz a week what are they going to do about disabled benefits its not a hard nor trick question so what i can gather is there going to escort me to the shop to make sure i dont but any pleasure items and as far as i can see no policy on benefits just funny speaches flaming rediculas .... go on lizzie you give em stick cos i cant i like all disabled people we dont exist >:( >:( >:( >:
Try not to worry ozzycat, the situation cannot continue and I have been able to speak to certain organisations informing them of my thoughts on behalf of others. There are many who feel like we do, and frankly 2015 cannot come quick enough. The waste that is now transpiring by all the ridiculously badly executed policy, whilst hurting those who are the weakest in our society, cannot continue. The question is now, can Labour give us a truly Socialist Government, whilst sorting out the mess this country is in due to "the elite" creating the problem in the first place?
It is a very big question mark, but there are many I speak to who will now vote one way, and it will not be for the Coalition / Conservatives! :y :y
-
TINA was crap when it was first said and it's crap now. Don't believe that austerity for the poor is the answer. The answer is a modest redistribution of wealth.
We've run out of rich people, as we've been doing that for too long.
So the next step is to "encourage" those who can work to do so, and the way to do that is to cut the benefits of those who refuse for reasons that aren't really valid. And put a cap on the maximum amount of benefits a household had claim.
Totally agree... I think some folks don't actually know or understand the actual meaning of the words "benefit", "support", "allowance" etc .. and confuse them with the term "right"
........and whilst we are on the subject of benefits..............where is Farage and UKIP on this? There has been silence from what I suspect is nothing but a one trick party who cannot apply themselves to actual policies and comment on situations that are close to home, and have not entered the fray on what is a crucial subject for hundreds of thousands. All they can comment about is the EU, and that is not what we need. I find that very disappointing.
Is anyone going to answer me on my comments about UKIP? Or have the many UKIP supporters suddenly been stuck silent by facts? ::) ::) ::) ;)
No, some of us have work to do.
Anyhow, here is Star Etheridge speaking on disablility to the UKIP conference in March. I haven't watched it all...as I say, I have work to do.
http://www.ukip.tv/?p=3847 (http://www.ukip.tv/?p=3847)
What does that mean Nick? :o :o :o :o
Do you think none of us work to? ::) ::) ::)
You write and write about so much obviously using your valuable time, but when challenged you come out with that type of statement!! ::) ::) ::) ::)
As I have said before it is easy to copy and paste links and spout off on your specialised subjects, but when somebody asks a sensible question you go all defensive! ::) ::) ::) ::)
I give up! I am certainly going to be too busy working to get involved with your threads again!
I'm sorry if I offended you, Lizzie, it was not my intention. :-[
Yes, I have been busy this afternoon, but your comment "a one trick party who cannot apply themselves to actual policies" actually irritated me a bit as I have several times on here given the link to UKIP's main manifesto (there is also a special 2013 Local Council Election manifesto on the same site). UKIP are not a one-trick party and have a number of very attractive policies (e.g. flat-rate taxation, abolition of the Climate Change Act, etc., etc.). Given that they do not have the wealth of the other mainstream parties, they cannot call upon the usual squadron of SpAds and PR machinery to react instantly to each and every headline on a daily basis. ;)
www.ukip.org (http://www.ukip.org)
i agree only a small party at the mo but the welfare question is not a small thing at the moment its grabing all the headlines so it would be prudent for an upand coming party to have aleast some thing to say what UKIP are thinking of doing theres nothing mentiond in there manifesto shame realy
-
TINA was crap when it was first said and it's crap now. Don't believe that austerity for the poor is the answer. The answer is a modest redistribution of wealth.
We've run out of rich people, as we've been doing that for too long.
So the next step is to "encourage" those who can work to do so, and the way to do that is to cut the benefits of those who refuse for reasons that aren't really valid. And put a cap on the maximum amount of benefits a household had claim.
Totally agree... I think some folks don't actually know or understand the actual meaning of the words "benefit", "support", "allowance" etc .. and confuse them with the term "right"
........and whilst we are on the subject of benefits..............where is Farage and UKIP on this? There has been silence from what I suspect is nothing but a one trick party who cannot apply themselves to actual policies and comment on situations that are close to home, and have not entered the fray on what is a crucial subject for hundreds of thousands. All they can comment about is the EU, and that is not what we need. I find that very disappointing.
Is anyone going to answer me on my comments about UKIP? Or have the many UKIP supporters suddenly been stuck silent by facts? ::) ::) ::) ;)
No, some of us have work to do.
Anyhow, here is Star Etheridge speaking on disablility to the UKIP conference in March. I haven't watched it all...as I say, I have work to do.
http://www.ukip.tv/?p=3847 (http://www.ukip.tv/?p=3847)
What does that mean Nick? :o :o :o :o
Do you think none of us work to? ::) ::) ::)
You write and write about so much obviously using your valuable time, but when challenged you come out with that type of statement!! ::) ::) ::) ::)
As I have said before it is easy to copy and paste links and spout off on your specialised subjects, but when somebody asks a sensible question you go all defensive! ::) ::) ::) ::)
I give up! I am certainly going to be too busy working to get involved with your threads again!
I'm sorry if I offended you, Lizzie, it was not my intention. :-[
Yes, I have been busy this afternoon, but your comment "a one trick party who cannot apply themselves to actual policies" actually irritated me a bit as I have several times on here given the link to UKIP's main manifesto (there is also a special 2013 Local Council Election manifesto on the same site). UKIP are not a one-trick party and have a number of very attractive policies (e.g. flat-rate taxation, abolition of the Climate Change Act, etc., etc.). Given that they do not have the wealth of the other mainstream parties, they cannot call upon the usual squadron of SpAds and PR machinery to react instantly to each and every headline on a daily basis. ;)
www.ukip.org (http://www.ukip.org)
Thanks Nick, and I am sorry for snapping at you as I do! ::) ::) ::) :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
It is just this subject probably winds me up so much as daily I am witnessing the heartache and consequences of bad policy by a Conservative Government (YES, and I am a Conservative! :-[ :-[) who are determined to dismantle the Welfare State, including the NHS, that so many of our ancestors bitterly fought for in either mass protest groups, like the Chartists, and then during two World Wars that should have given us a State away from the previous elitism. My socialist principles detest what Cameron is doing, but I am struggling to find a realistic political alternative that will give the people what we need. If only Labour did not have the record they have, and UKIP could really convince me that they can cope with running this country without making the situation worse!
We need a new approach, by A strong political leader who can be trusted to not bungle everything, and really implement a policy to support our citizens and not beat them over the head! :y :y
-
TINA was crap when it was first said and it's crap now. Don't believe that austerity for the poor is the answer. The answer is a modest redistribution of wealth.
We've run out of rich people, as we've been doing that for too long.
So the next step is to "encourage" those who can work to do so, and the way to do that is to cut the benefits of those who refuse for reasons that aren't really valid. And put a cap on the maximum amount of benefits a household had claim.
Totally agree... I think some folks don't actually know or understand the actual meaning of the words "benefit", "support", "allowance" etc .. and confuse them with the term "right"
........and whilst we are on the subject of benefits..............where is Farage and UKIP on this? There has been silence from what I suspect is nothing but a one trick party who cannot apply themselves to actual policies and comment on situations that are close to home, and have not entered the fray on what is a crucial subject for hundreds of thousands. All they can comment about is the EU, and that is not what we need. I find that very disappointing.
Is anyone going to answer me on my comments about UKIP? Or have the many UKIP supporters suddenly been stuck silent by facts? ::) ::) ::) ;)
No, some of us have work to do.
Anyhow, here is Star Etheridge speaking on disablility to the UKIP conference in March. I haven't watched it all...as I say, I have work to do.
http://www.ukip.tv/?p=3847 (http://www.ukip.tv/?p=3847)
What does that mean Nick? :o :o :o :o
Do you think none of us work to? ::) ::) ::)
You write and write about so much obviously using your valuable time, but when challenged you come out with that type of statement!! ::) ::) ::) ::)
As I have said before it is easy to copy and paste links and spout off on your specialised subjects, but when somebody asks a sensible question you go all defensive! ::) ::) ::) ::)
I give up! I am certainly going to be too busy working to get involved with your threads again!
I'm sorry if I offended you, Lizzie, it was not my intention. :-[
Yes, I have been busy this afternoon, but your comment "a one trick party who cannot apply themselves to actual policies" actually irritated me a bit as I have several times on here given the link to UKIP's main manifesto (there is also a special 2013 Local Council Election manifesto on the same site). UKIP are not a one-trick party and have a number of very attractive policies (e.g. flat-rate taxation, abolition of the Climate Change Act, etc., etc.). Given that they do not have the wealth of the other mainstream parties, they cannot call upon the usual squadron of SpAds and PR machinery to react instantly to each and every headline on a daily basis. ;)
www.ukip.org (http://www.ukip.org)
i agree only a small party at the mo but the welfare question is not a small thing at the moment its grabing all the headlines so it would be prudent for an upand coming party to have aleast some thing to say what UKIP are thinking of doing theres nothing mentiond in there manifesto shame realy
What also puts me into the thought that UKIP cannot really be realistically capable of running the country is when you see articles like this:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/apr/02/ukip-mep-climate-change-policy
It may not be a major point, but it just feeds me with doubt. ;)
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in that speach no mention of policy just sugetions good speach nut nothing new UKIP going to stop me having the only pleasure ive got left that is smoking i smoke 1/2 oz a week what are they going to do about disabled benefits its not a hard nor trick question so what i can gather is there going to escort me to the shop to make sure i dont but any pleasure items and as far as i can see no policy on benefits just funny speaches flaming rediculas .... go on lizzie you give em stick cos i cant i like all disabled people we dont exist >:( >:( >:( >:
Try not to worry ozzycat, the situation cannot continue and I have been able to speak to certain organisations informing them of my thoughts on behalf of others. There are many who feel like we do, and frankly 2015 cannot come quick enough. The waste that is now transpiring by all the ridiculously badly executed policy, whilst hurting those who are the weakest in our society, cannot continue. The question is now, can Labour give us a truly Socialist Government, whilst sorting out the mess this country is in due to "the elite" creating the problem in the first place?
It is a very big question mark, but there are many I speak to who will now vote one way, and it will not be for the Coalition / Conservatives! :y :y
cheers lizzie ive got to say i voted for the lib/dems last time what a mistake that was i wont be voteing for any of the top 3 next time that's why im interested in what ukip have to say but if they dont come up with something concrete well before the next election and not something cobbled together at the last minuet i don't know who ill vote for ive still not heard from the council weather im going to get any help with this bedroom tax evan with the housing ass trying to help as much as they can they are not allowed to help financially the government changed the law on 1st april so they couldnt
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just had a second letter from them ,medical is been cancelled because they just got more info of the hospital .cowboys >:( >:( >:(
all that heart ace for nothing mate i recon that atos get a kick out of geting people all wsorked up then sending these letters out ... glad you dont gave to go
thanks got my blood preshure done :y :y
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just had a second letter from them ,medical is been cancelled because they just got more info of the hospital .cowboys >:( >:( >:(
all that heart ace for nothing mate i recon that atos get a kick out of geting people all wsorked up then sending these letters out ... glad you dont gave to go
thanks got my blood preshure done :y :y
good you should be anle to calm down abit now. mines going through the roof ;D ;D
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..............and going back to the link that Cleggy kindly supplied:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/mar/22/ukip-benefits-claimants-tobacco-alcohol
This only angers me further, and after reading about the right wing links of UKIP across Europe, this "intention" by Farage stinks of National Socialism. It is the start of really taking away personal choices and freedom and the promotion of a authoritarian State, and we are not talking purely Utilitarianism, for the greater good. No we are talking of dictatorship. >:( >:(
When a State is in financial difficulties, with mass unemployment, a lost nationalism with lost pride, with a serious lack of faith in our political representatives and democracy itself, one route out is a very real possibility. It just needs one man / women with the right spark! :-X :-X :-X
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just had a second letter from them ,medical is been cancelled because they just got more info of the hospital .cowboys >:( >:( >:(
all that heart ace for nothing mate i recon that atos get a kick out of geting people all wsorked up then sending these letters out ... glad you dont gave to go
thanks got my blood preshure done :y :y
good you should be anle to calm down abit now. mines going through the roof ;D ;D
have you still got to go then :y :y
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I could see a crash coming in the UK long before Lehmans. I suspect most could.
Are you sure? I spoke to a risk analyst in the City a week after the crash he said none of them saw it coming and it is was their job. If you saw it coming you ought to be very rich. ???
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just had a second letter from them ,medical is been cancelled because they just got more info of the hospital .cowboys >:( >:( >:(
all that heart ace for nothing mate i recon that atos get a kick out of geting people all wsorked up then sending these letters out ... glad you dont gave to go
thanks got my blood preshure done :y :y
Join the club ralf ;D Ive been given a double dose of tablets :(
UKIP to me is the only option , the other 3 are all cutting each other's throats , labour got us in this mess and the Tories have a bad attitude and have no idea how to connect with the general public , they dont understand the real issues neither do they want to understand . The Tories always support the rich and the rich get richer in every term they are in power , the latest round of cuts to the disabled and housing has gone too far >:( As for the lib/dems they have no imput no backbone and will never be strong enough to ever be a contnder .
Im going for a ly down now ;D
-
..............and going back to the link that Cleggy kindly supplied:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/mar/22/ukip-benefits-claimants-tobacco-alcohol
This only angers me further, and after reading about the right wing links of UKIP across Europe, this "intention" by Farage stinks of National Socialism. It is the start of really taking away personal choices and freedom and the promotion of a authoritarian State, and we are not talking purely Utilitarianism, for the greater good. No we are talking of dictatorship. >:( >:(
When a State is in financial difficulties, with mass unemployment, a lost nationalism with lost pride, with a serious lack of faith in our political representatives and democracy itself, one route out is a very real possibility. It just needs one man / women with the right spark! :-X :-X :-X
Sorry to repeat, but I will add: A man or women who promises all to the masses and gains the popular vote, then implements their true intentions! :P :P :P :P
History can repeat itself in a different form, but a similar result :( :( :(
-
..............and going back to the link that Cleggy kindly supplied:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/mar/22/ukip-benefits-claimants-tobacco-alcohol
This only angers me further, and after reading about the right wing links of UKIP across Europe, this "intention" by Farage stinks of National Socialism. It is the start of really taking away personal choices and freedom and the promotion of a authoritarian State, and we are not talking purely Utilitarianism, for the greater good. No we are talking of dictatorship. >:( >:(
When a State is in financial difficulties, with mass unemployment, a lost nationalism with lost pride, with a serious lack of faith in our political representatives and democracy itself, one route out is a very real possibility. It just needs one man / women with the right spark! :-X :-X :-X
Oh, come on, Lizzie. Are you just trawling the Net to try and dig dirt on UKIP? Now UKIP are making headway, there are many scare stories being peddled by their opponents.
For a start, it is not an official UKIP policy and, secondly, may I remind you of this?
Iain Duncan Smith yesterday declared war on benefit claimants who fritter the cash on fags, booze and satellite TV subscriptions.
The Work and Pensions Secretary said he was studying plans for a welfare card which would prevent them buying “unnecessary and non-essential items”.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/government-studying-welfare-card-plans-1499584 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/government-studying-welfare-card-plans-1499584)
Presumable, on your logic, this "intention" by Farage Ian Duncan Smith (CONSERVATIVE!) stinks of National Socialism. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ_W6loKc88 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ_W6loKc88)
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Poor fella looks starved. ::)
-
..............and going back to the link that Cleggy kindly supplied:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/mar/22/ukip-benefits-claimants-tobacco-alcohol
This only angers me further, and after reading about the right wing links of UKIP across Europe, this "intention" by Farage stinks of National Socialism. It is the start of really taking away personal choices and freedom and the promotion of a authoritarian State, and we are not talking purely Utilitarianism, for the greater good. No we are talking of dictatorship. >:( >:(
When a State is in financial difficulties, with mass unemployment, a lost nationalism with lost pride, with a serious lack of faith in our political representatives and democracy itself, one route out is a very real possibility. It just needs one man / women with the right spark! :-X :-X :-X
Oh, come on, Lizzie. Are you just trawling the Net to try and dig dirt on UKIP? Now UKIP are making headway, there are many scare stories being peddled by their opponents.
For a start, it is not an official UKIP policy and, secondly, may I remind you of this?
Iain Duncan Smith yesterday declared war on benefit claimants who fritter the cash on fags, booze and satellite TV subscriptions.
The Work and Pensions Secretary said he was studying plans for a welfare card which would prevent them buying “unnecessary and non-essential items”.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/government-studying-welfare-card-plans-1499584 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/government-studying-welfare-card-plans-1499584)
Presumable, on your logic, this "intention" by Farage Ian Duncan Smith (CONSERVATIVE!) stinks of National Socialism. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Yes, they are heading in that direction and thus it is a real danger in my opinion :o :o :o What IDS is threatening is a serious threat towards National Socialism by a Government struggling to find a successful direction to go in. Farage is almost a right wing extension of the Conservatives, and that deeply troubles me. :( :( :(
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Poor fella looks starved. ::)
It's a she, Albs. ;)
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Just 30 seconds of that almost made me jump in the car, head to Mancchester and shoot someone :-X
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Farage is almost a right wing extension of the Conservatives, and that deeply troubles me. :( :( :(
From UKIPs published national policy:
Assure for all people prompt and caring treatment in ill health.
Radically simplify NHS management and set up locally elected County Health Boards.
Give parents school vouchers to allow them to choose their children’s schools.
End the 50% university target for school leavers , scrap tuition fees and reintroduce student grants.
Change legislation to allow the formation of a greater number of producer co-operatives, putting food producers on a more equal footing with supermarket buyers
Support the new Supermarket Ombudsman to ensure producers receive a fair share of retail prices
and locally...
Achieve consensus
UKIP is unique in local government, because we do not 'whip' our councillors to follow party diktats, or toe the party line. Instead, we expect our councillors to represent the wishes of their electors at all times. That means it's easier to get agreement for the things that really need doing.
Yes, just so right-wing, Lizzie. ::) ::)
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"...it's the way I've been brought up to..... spend my benefits on what I'm used to..." Daybreak interview with Tracey MacDonald. (0.50secs) Dragging up people like this really does not help the debate in my opinion..... ::)
All lot of people slagging off the government for cutting benefits, and UKIP for not having any policies on welfare. So what about Labour? What is their position on benefits? They're quite happy to slag off the government, but as usual Millipede and Bully Boy Balls arn't offering any alternatives or solutions.... :-\
I for one applaud the government for at least trying to break the dependency culture/cycle that Labour created whilst in government and I was saddened by reports a few days ago that IDS has given up trying to reduce spending on welfare and will try to manage it instead. :( If they and future governments give up trying to get people off benefits and into work, then we will have many more lost generations of youngsters.... :-\
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I really don't think that their ideal is to sort out the welfare system, Tigger, I think that it's possibly the only place they can make a start on saving money. If they could get away with cutting old age pensions and the like, they would do it. But they can't.
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Cynic! ::)
-
Cynic! ::)
Moi? Oh yes.
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I really don't think that their ideal is to sort out the welfare system, Tigger, I think that it's possibly the only place they can make a start on saving money. If they could get away with cutting old age pensions and the like, they would do it. But they can't.
No, I agree as they wish to destroy it! :( :( :(
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I really don't think that their ideal is to sort out the welfare system, Tigger, I think that it's possibly the only place they can make a start on saving money. If they could get away with cutting old age pensions and the like, they would do it. But they can't.
The untouchables......which is as it should be if the pensioners in question are in need.
Wealthy pensioners however should not be considered untouchable.
-
Farage is almost a right wing extension of the Conservatives, and that deeply troubles me. :( :( :(
From UKIPs published national policy:
Assure for all people prompt and caring treatment in ill health.
Radically simplify NHS management and set up locally elected County Health Boards.
Give parents school vouchers to allow them to choose their children’s schools.
End the 50% university target for school leavers , scrap tuition fees and reintroduce student grants.
Change legislation to allow the formation of a greater number of producer co-operatives, putting food producers on a more equal footing with supermarket buyers
Support the new Supermarket Ombudsman to ensure producers receive a fair share of retail prices
and locally...
Achieve consensus
UKIP is unique in local government, because we do not 'whip' our councillors to follow party diktats, or toe the party line. Instead, we expect our councillors to represent the wishes of their electors at all times. That means it's easier to get agreement for the things that really need doing.
Yes, just so right-wing, Lizzie. ::) ::)
Well, we shall see Nick :D :D :y :y
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just had a second letter from them ,medical is been cancelled because they just got more info of the hospital .cowboys >:( >:( >:(
all that heart ace for nothing mate i recon that atos get a kick out of geting people all wsorked up then sending these letters out ... glad you dont gave to go
thanks got my blood preshure done :y :y
good you should be anle to calm down abit now. mines going through the roof ;D ;D
have you still got to go then :y :y
no mate ive been told that i wont have to go but its the bedroom tax thats worring me my wife sleeps in the spare room some of the time but im waiting for the council to decide weather i can have the descrepancy payments ive been told that i qualify for them but still waiting it may be 14% of the rent but its 36% of my benefits if i dont get it ill be out on our arses by xmas
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just had a second letter from them ,medical is been cancelled because they just got more info of the hospital .cowboys >:( >:( >:(
all that heart ace for nothing mate i recon that atos get a kick out of geting people all wsorked up then sending these letters out ... glad you dont gave to go
thanks got my blood preshure done :y :y
good you should be anle to calm down abit now. mines going through the roof ;D ;D
have you still got to go then :y :y
no mate ive been told that i wont have to go but its the bedroom tax thats worring me my wife sleeps in the spare room some of the time but im waiting for the council to decide weather i can have the descrepancy payments ive been told that i qualify for them but still waiting it may be 14% of the rent but its 36% of my benefits if i dont get it ill be out on our arses by xmas
I see this as a blatant attempt to take money from the poorest in society. :(
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Calm yourself, Opti, those nice socialists will be back in a couple of years.
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Calm yourself, Opti, those nice socialists will be back in a couple of years.
We've not had a socialist government in this country for years. Tory Blair stood just to the right of Vlad the Impaler. ;D ;)
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And lets hope and pray we never have another. :)
Allthough our real government in Brussells are dyed in the wool socialists.Hence the mess Europe has got into. ;)
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And lets hope and pray we never have another. :)
Allthough our real government in Brussells are dyed in the wool socialists.Hence the mess Europe has got into. ;)
If they hear you talking like that, Albs.....you'll be first against the wall come the revolution. ;)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ_W6loKc88 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ_W6loKc88)
sorry nick but if i had that atitude i would deserve everything they could throw at me >:( >:(
ok yes i smoke but i only smoke 1/2 oz a week but its the last thing that we buy i dont drink yes i like a drink like most people but my liquid intake is limited to i ltr a day this is because of kidney failure and includes all liquid in food and drink you want to try it its hard i dont have sky i do have youveiw only because i dont pay for it my mother sometimes buys me some baccy it is a luxury not a necessity you try living on what i get a week its not alot but there is some benefits i can claim for but i dont as long as we can manage im happy this is my way of geting some solice in saying im doing my bit it eases my cons once i do this not to shout about it but if you feel the way ido about living off benefits it helps
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ_W6loKc88 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ_W6loKc88)
sorry nick but if i had that atitude i would deserve everything they could throw at me >:( >:(
ok yes i smoke but i only smoke 1/2 oz a week but its the last thing that we buy i dont drink yes i like a drink like most people but my liquid intake is limited to i ltr a day this is because of kidney failure and includes all liquid in food and drink you want to try it its hard i dont have sky i do have youveiw only because i dont pay for it my mother sometimes buys me some baccy it is a luxury not a necessity you try living on what i get a week its not alot but there is some benefits i can claim for but i dont as long as we can manage im happy this is my way of geting some solice in saying im doing my bit it eases my cons once i do this not to shout about it but if you feel the way ido about living off benefits it helps
Also ozzycat lets face it that women has her own mental health / personality disorder problems. She is not right and is unemployable in her current state. She needs help, and shame on a TV station taking advantage and showing her in the light they have. No, yet again, it is one part of society targeting the weakest and poorest in society to the delight of the Coalition. Divide and conquer. It is sickening. Haul the millionaires and billionaires in front of the cameras who pay peanuts in taxes; oh, hang on they have the establishment in their pocket and after all are the elite!! ::) ::) ::)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ_W6loKc88 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ_W6loKc88)
sorry nick but if i had that atitude i would deserve everything they could throw at me >:( >:(
ok yes i smoke but i only smoke 1/2 oz a week but its the last thing that we buy i dont drink yes i like a drink like most people but my liquid intake is limited to i ltr a day this is because of kidney failure and includes all liquid in food and drink you want to try it its hard i dont have sky i do have youveiw only because i dont pay for it my mother sometimes buys me some baccy it is a luxury not a necessity you try living on what i get a week its not alot but there is some benefits i can claim for but i dont as long as we can manage im happy this is my way of geting some solice in saying im doing my bit it eases my cons once i do this not to shout about it but if you feel the way ido about living off benefits it helps
Ozzy, I posted that link not from the point of my own approval or disapproval, but rather because it highlights the whole debate. Tigger says that dragging up this does not help the debate, but I would question that.
Let's assume for a moment that there are quite a few people like this. The attitude she displayed is abhorrent to many and if viewers were asked having just watched it, whether it was morally right for the taxpayer to fund certain non-essential aspects of her lifestyle they would likely as not say "No". But, to Lizzie (and this is not meant personally) that is, in itself, abhorrent – indeed Nazi-like.
If you then watch a clip of an interview from someone whose life is an unbearably grim fight against severe disability and asked the viewers whether it was morally right to fund that person, they would likely as not say "Yes".
So, we have a blanket system which throws money at all claimants, seemingly irrespective of their need. As I understand it, and I am happy to be contradicted, all IDS did was to suggest a way of identifying those in real need and weeding out the breakless.
However, there are bound to be some needy individuals who would be inconvenienced, financially or otherwise, by such a plan. Amongst these, the general media will always find a deserving cause willing to sit in front of the camera and say how heartless the government is. The plan gets dropped and everyone carries on collecting the money...whether they deserve it or not. ::) ::)
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Poor fella looks starved. ::)
It's a she, Albs. ;)
LMFAO ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I think that the assertion that the government is deliberately targeting the weak, sick, disabled and helpless in a Nazi like fashion is pure BS! :o
I believe that the government have set out in good faith to reform the welfare system that has got so hideously expensive that the country cannot afford it in it's present form. ::) Unfortunately for the likes of ozzycat, as is the way with governments of all colours, the reforms have been poorly planned and have dragged many of the deserving into the net. :-\
Some of the ideals behind the reforms such as a cap on a household income from benefits linked to an average wage is just common sense in my view and not fascism as some would have us believe. ::) For sure there will be cases where people need more for medical reasons and these cases should be rightly accommodated on a case by case basis. :y One medical reason that shouldn't qualify for extra benefit money, in my view is lots of pregnancies! ;)
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Well said Tigger. :y
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ_W6loKc88 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ_W6loKc88)
sorry nick but if i had that atitude i would deserve everything they could throw at me >:( >:(
ok yes i smoke but i only smoke 1/2 oz a week but its the last thing that we buy i dont drink yes i like a drink like most people but my liquid intake is limited to i ltr a day this is because of kidney failure and includes all liquid in food and drink you want to try it its hard i dont have sky i do have youveiw only because i dont pay for it my mother sometimes buys me some baccy it is a luxury not a necessity you try living on what i get a week its not alot but there is some benefits i can claim for but i dont as long as we can manage im happy this is my way of geting some solice in saying im doing my bit it eases my cons once i do this not to shout about it but if you feel the way ido about living off benefits it helps
Ozzy, I posted that link not from the point of my own approval or disapproval, but rather because it highlights the whole debate. Tigger says that dragging up this does not help the debate, but I would question that.
Let's assume for a moment that there are quite a few people like this. The attitude she displayed is abhorrent to many and if viewers were asked having just watched it, whether it was morally right for the taxpayer to fund certain non-essential aspects of her lifestyle they would likely as not say "No". But, to Lizzie (and this is not meant personally) that is, in itself, abhorrent – indeed Nazi-like.
If you then watch a clip of an interview from someone whose life is an unbearably grim fight against severe disability and asked the viewers whether it was morally right to fund that person, they would likely as not say "Yes".
So, we have a blanket system which throws money at all claimants, seemingly irrespective of their need. As I understand it, and I am happy to be contradicted, all IDS did was to suggest a way of identifying those in real need and weeding out the breakless.
However, there are bound to be some needy individuals who would be inconvenienced, financially or otherwise, by such a plan. Amongst these, the general media will always find a deserving cause willing to sit in front of the camera and say how heartless the government is. The plan gets dropped and everyone carries on collecting the money...whether they deserve it or not. ::) ::)
if she has got mental health problems then the tv company should be ashamed of there selves they stiched her up when she proberbly realy didnt know what she was doing . i had reservations when i did my interveiw with the bbc but im glad to say that they let me say what i wanted to say and didnt put words in to my mouth i was very greatfull for the way they treated me they errrwere cery curtios and polite they evan stoped recording when i got upset i also had a laf with them when i nearly run the camera man over wiyh my stairlift
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I think that the assertion that the government is deliberately targeting the weak, sick, disabled and helpless in a Nazi like fashion is pure BS! :o
I believe that the government have set out in good faith to reform the welfare system that has got so hideously expensive that the country cannot afford it in it's present form. ::) Unfortunately for the likes of ozzycat, as is the way with governments of all colours, the reforms have been poorly planned and have dragged many of the deserving into the net. :-\
Some of the ideals behind the reforms such as a cap on a household income from benefits linked to an average wage is just common sense in my view and not fascism as some would have us believe. ::) For sure there will be cases where people need more for medical reasons and these cases should be rightly accommodated on a case by case basis. :y One medical reason that shouldn't qualify for extra benefit money, in my view is lots of pregnancies! ;)
i totaly agree mate they didnt deliberatly set out to get people like me but they should have put something in the bill to protect people like me and others the longer they take to sort it out the worse it will get
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ_W6loKc88 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ_W6loKc88)
sorry nick but if i had that atitude i would deserve everything they could throw at me >:( >:(
ok yes i smoke but i only smoke 1/2 oz a week but its the last thing that we buy i dont drink yes i like a drink like most people but my liquid intake is limited to i ltr a day this is because of kidney failure and includes all liquid in food and drink you want to try it its hard i dont have sky i do have youveiw only because i dont pay for it my mother sometimes buys me some baccy it is a luxury not a necessity you try living on what i get a week its not alot but there is some benefits i can claim for but i dont as long as we can manage im happy this is my way of geting some solice in saying im doing my bit it eases my cons once i do this not to shout about it but if you feel the way ido about living off benefits it helps
Also ozzycat lets face it that women has her own mental health / personality disorder problems. She is not right and is unemployable in her current state. She needs help, and shame on a TV station taking advantage and showing her in the light they have. No, yet again, it is one part of society targeting the weakest and poorest in society to the delight of the Coalition. Divide and conquer. It is sickening. Haul the millionaires and billionaires in front of the cameras who pay peanuts in taxes; oh, hang on they have the establishment in their pocket and after all are the elite!! ::) ::) ::)
That's a guess on your part, isn't it, Lizzie? ???
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He is 58 years old and has suckled upon the publicly-funded teat for most of his life.
He's signed on the dole. He's had four children and received child benefit for all of them. He has put them each through private school, too.
His wife hasn't worked since they married, except for 15 months in which he got her a job paid by the taxpayer.
He and his colleagues eat and drink food you subsidise in a palace you pay for, he is driven around in a car you own, and when he is too old to 'work' any more you will pay for him to have a better pension than you, too.
He started out at the age of 21 with six years of taxpayer-funded military service, during which he acted as bag-carrier to a Major-General.
Then in 1981, aged 27, he left the Army and signed on the dole for several months.
He then began a period of ordinary work based upon the skills he had gained at the taxpayer's expense, and worked in sales for arms dealer GEC-Marconi.
He then moved on to a property firm, where he was made redundant after six months, and then sold gun-related magazines for Jane's Information Group.
After 11 years of this all-too brief career he succeeded in once again boarding the publicly-funded gravy train in 1992.
In the intervening 20 years he has been paid by the taxpayer every year more money than most taxpayers earn. He has topped it up, along the way, to more than six figures for a few years here and there by being more pompous than the other pigs.
In 2001 he helped his unemployed wife to have a suckle, arranging for you to pay her £15,000 to be his diary secretary.
These days he is given the grand total of £134,565 a year from the taxpayer.
He lives for free in a £2million Tudor farmhouse on his father-in-law's ancestral estate in Buckinghamshire.
He has three acres of land, a tennis court, swimming pool and some orchards, which is not bad for a life in the pay of the state.
'Who is this scumbag?' you might cry. 'Tell us his name, let the authorities know his address, let's get this guzzler out of the cushy life and show him what life is like for the rest of us,earning £7 an hour with a rise once every eight years and a pension consisting entirely of penny sweets if you're lucky.'
His name is Iain Duncan Smith...
But if sadly you were to be made homeless Ozzy, I'm sure the Queen would be glad of the reduction in her bedroom tax, after all she must have tens of bedrooms going begging, and don't forget, along with all the politicians she is on benefits.... :-[
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thats why i signed the potition to make him live on £53 a week you and i know he wont do it he spends morethan that on his tea break in a morning im afraid people like him distgust me im not against people having money good luck to them what he dose is rub it in peoples faces and makes statments like this with no intention of folowing them trough in my opinion hes a 2 faced incomptant spoilt brat who likes saying look what ive got so break you im allright jack he was the same when he was leader of the con you party total wasre of a good skin >:( >:( >:( >:(
by the way did i say i dont like the bloke either sorry if i missed that bit out >:( >:( >:( >:(
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He is 58 years old and has suckled upon the publicly-funded teat for most of his life.
He's signed on the dole. He's had four children and received child benefit for all of them. He has put them each through private school, too.
His wife hasn't worked since they married, except for 15 months in which he got her a job paid by the taxpayer.
He and his colleagues eat and drink food you subsidise in a palace you pay for, he is driven around in a car you own, and when he is too old to 'work' any more you will pay for him to have a better pension than you, too.
He started out at the age of 21 with six years of taxpayer-funded military service, during which he acted as bag-carrier to a Major-General.
Then in 1981, aged 27, he left the Army and signed on the dole for several months.
He then began a period of ordinary work based upon the skills he had gained at the taxpayer's expense, and worked in sales for arms dealer GEC-Marconi.
He then moved on to a property firm, where he was made redundant after six months, and then sold gun-related magazines for Jane's Information Group.
After 11 years of this all-too brief career he succeeded in once again boarding the publicly-funded gravy train in 1992.
In the intervening 20 years he has been paid by the taxpayer every year more money than most taxpayers earn. He has topped it up, along the way, to more than six figures for a few years here and there by being more pompous than the other pigs.
In 2001 he helped his unemployed wife to have a suckle, arranging for you to pay her £15,000 to be his diary secretary.
These days he is given the grand total of £134,565 a year from the taxpayer.
He lives for free in a £2million Tudor farmhouse on his father-in-law's ancestral estate in Buckinghamshire.
He has three acres of land, a tennis court, swimming pool and some orchards, which is not bad for a life in the pay of the state.
'Who is this scumbag?' you might cry. 'Tell us his name, let the authorities know his address, let's get this guzzler out of the cushy life and show him what life is like for the rest of us,earning £7 an hour with a rise once every eight years and a pension consisting entirely of penny sweets if you're lucky.'
His name is Iain Duncan Smith...
But if sadly you were to be made homeless Ozzy, I'm sure the Queen would be glad of the reduction in her bedroom tax, after all she must have tens of bedrooms going begging, and don't forget, along with all the politicians she is on benefits.... :-[
THANK YOU for stating the facts about this self serving barsteward. :y
I signed the petition simply because the idiot said he could live on £53 per week if he had to. Prove it before you take away the benefits of people who have contributed to a system to look after them in the bad times. >:( >:(
Yes there are the scroungers, immigrants , health care tourists etc but dont't screw our own >:( >:(
Now IDS put up or freak off :y
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Anyone can live on £53 for a week......but let them try living on it full time. I have been there, years ago, on £44. Its not nice, I assure you
People forget its not just for food for a week, its for all the other bills, or are you not allowed any electric, gas, water, phone, clothes, etc, etc They forget about the fact they would have to give up their cars, booze etc They only see the surface, and not into the depths >:(
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ_W6loKc88 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ_W6loKc88)
sorry nick but if i had that atitude i would deserve everything they could throw at me >:( >:(
ok yes i smoke but i only smoke 1/2 oz a week but its the last thing that we buy i dont drink yes i like a drink like most people but my liquid intake is limited to i ltr a day this is because of kidney failure and includes all liquid in food and drink you want to try it its hard i dont have sky i do have youveiw only because i dont pay for it my mother sometimes buys me some baccy it is a luxury not a necessity you try living on what i get a week its not alot but there is some benefits i can claim for but i dont as long as we can manage im happy this is my way of geting some solice in saying im doing my bit it eases my cons once i do this not to shout about it but if you feel the way ido about living off benefits it helps
Ozzy, I posted that link not from the point of my own approval or disapproval, but rather because it highlights the whole debate. Tigger says that dragging up this does not help the debate, but I would question that.
Let's assume for a moment that there are quite a few people like this. The attitude she displayed is abhorrent to many and if viewers were asked having just watched it, whether it was morally right for the taxpayer to fund certain non-essential aspects of her lifestyle they would likely as not say "No". But, to Lizzie (and this is not meant personally) that is, in itself, abhorrent – indeed Nazi-like.
If you then watch a clip of an interview from someone whose life is an unbearably grim fight against severe disability and asked the viewers whether it was morally right to fund that person, they would likely as not say "Yes".
So, we have a blanket system which throws money at all claimants, seemingly irrespective of their need. As I understand it, and I am happy to be contradicted, all IDS did was to suggest a way of identifying those in real need and weeding out the breakless.
However, there are bound to be some needy individuals who would be inconvenienced, financially or otherwise, by such a plan. Amongst these, the general media will always find a deserving cause willing to sit in front of the camera and say how heartless the government is. The plan gets dropped and everyone carries on collecting the money...whether they deserve it or not. ::) ::)
That is my fear, and although I have carefully avoided that sometimes over-used label, this in the extreme is exactly what can happen on a much larger scale in a National Socialist sate. Just round up a few less able people, the weak and the ill, mentally ill especially, hire a good film crew and neo-Nazis director, and bingo you can convince the majority of the populous that these individuals are not suitable to live in our society. Show up those with weakness, and then those who oppose the "established" political power, then who are a nuisance, and you can get away with murder, literally. I am not suggesting our government is really as bad as that, but once you get the press going in that direction....................who knows! At least a witch hunt can be the simpler outcome!
That TV interview was just one element of what is going on..................what is secretly going on in the corridors of power, and the minds of some politicians, is even more disturbing. :( :( :(
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ_W6loKc88 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ_W6loKc88)
sorry nick but if i had that atitude i would deserve everything they could throw at me >:( >:(
ok yes i smoke but i only smoke 1/2 oz a week but its the last thing that we buy i dont drink yes i like a drink like most people but my liquid intake is limited to i ltr a day this is because of kidney failure and includes all liquid in food and drink you want to try it its hard i dont have sky i do have youveiw only because i dont pay for it my mother sometimes buys me some baccy it is a luxury not a necessity you try living on what i get a week its not alot but there is some benefits i can claim for but i dont as long as we can manage im happy this is my way of geting some solice in saying im doing my bit it eases my cons once i do this not to shout about it but if you feel the way ido about living off benefits it helps
Ozzy, I posted that link not from the point of my own approval or disapproval, but rather because it highlights the whole debate. Tigger says that dragging up this does not help the debate, but I would question that.
Let's assume for a moment that there are quite a few people like this. The attitude she displayed is abhorrent to many and if viewers were asked having just watched it, whether it was morally right for the taxpayer to fund certain non-essential aspects of her lifestyle they would likely as not say "No". But, to Lizzie (and this is not meant personally) that is, in itself, abhorrent – indeed Nazi-like.
If you then watch a clip of an interview from someone whose life is an unbearably grim fight against severe disability and asked the viewers whether it was morally right to fund that person, they would likely as not say "Yes".
So, we have a blanket system which throws money at all claimants, seemingly irrespective of their need. As I understand it, and I am happy to be contradicted, all IDS did was to suggest a way of identifying those in real need and weeding out the breakless.
However, there are bound to be some needy individuals who would be inconvenienced, financially or otherwise, by such a plan. Amongst these, the general media will always find a deserving cause willing to sit in front of the camera and say how heartless the government is. The plan gets dropped and everyone carries on collecting the money...whether they deserve it or not. ::) ::)
That is my fear, and although I have carefully avoided that sometimes over-used label, this in the extreme is exactly what can happen on a much larger scale in a National Socialist sate. Just round up a few less able people, the weak and the ill, mentally ill especially, hire a good film crew and neo-Nazis director, and bingo you can convince the majority of the populous that these individuals are not suitable to live in our society. Show up those with weakness, and then those who oppose the "established" political power, then who are a nuisance, and you can get away with murder, literally. I am not suggesting our government is really as bad as that, but once you get the press going in that direction....................who knows! At least a witch hunt can be the simpler outcome!
That TV interview was just one element of what is going on..................what is secretly going on in the corridors of power, and the minds of some politicians, is even more disturbing. :( :( :(
thats what these lot are trying to do lizzie :y :y
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I think that the assertion that the government is deliberately targeting the weak, sick, disabled and helpless in a Nazi like fashion is pure BS! :o
I believe that the government have set out in good faith to reform the welfare system that has got so hideously expensive that the country cannot afford it in it's present form. ::) Unfortunately for the likes of ozzycat, as is the way with governments of all colours, the reforms have been poorly planned and have dragged many of the deserving into the net. :-\
Some of the ideals behind the reforms such as a cap on a household income from benefits linked to an average wage is just common sense in my view and not fascism as some would have us believe. ::) For sure there will be cases where people need more for medical reasons and these cases should be rightly accommodated on a case by case basis. :y One medical reason that shouldn't qualify for extra benefit money, in my view is lots of pregnancies! ;)
You may be right in believing a right wing link of that kind is OTT. You may be right that the government is purely trying to cut the over inflated welfare bill. But their actions are actually producing a different outcome that is appearing to affect the weak of our society, those that are disabled, sick or mentally ill. Intentions are one thing, but the factual outcome that now have scores of charities and welfare organisations up in arms, is quite another. Real people, as some on the Forum, are really suffering, being caused grave distress. One minute they were being helped, then next certain parts of the assistance given to them is being taken away.
It seems clear that the harder targets, like corporate organisations and very wealthy (powerful) individuals, are being ignored by the government whilst going for the "easy" option. That is not the society I wish to be part of, and will do my humble bit to stop. There are always two ways to skin a cat. :( :(
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ_W6loKc88 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ_W6loKc88)
sorry nick but if i had that atitude i would deserve everything they could throw at me >:( >:(
ok yes i smoke but i only smoke 1/2 oz a week but its the last thing that we buy i dont drink yes i like a drink like most people but my liquid intake is limited to i ltr a day this is because of kidney failure and includes all liquid in food and drink you want to try it its hard i dont have sky i do have youveiw only because i dont pay for it my mother sometimes buys me some baccy it is a luxury not a necessity you try living on what i get a week its not alot but there is some benefits i can claim for but i dont as long as we can manage im happy this is my way of geting some solice in saying im doing my bit it eases my cons once i do this not to shout about it but if you feel the way ido about living off benefits it helps
Also ozzycat lets face it that women has her own mental health / personality disorder problems. She is not right and is unemployable in her current state. She needs help, and shame on a TV station taking advantage and showing her in the light they have. No, yet again, it is one part of society targeting the weakest and poorest in society to the delight of the Coalition. Divide and conquer. It is sickening. Haul the millionaires and billionaires in front of the cameras who pay peanuts in taxes; oh, hang on they have the establishment in their pocket and after all are the elite!! ::) ::) ::)
That's a guess on your part, isn't it, Lizzie? ???
No, after being heavily involved in mental health care, direct, with the Police and CPS as an advisor, I can usually detect when someone has an "issue" that needs professional help. That woman has issues. ;)
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thats why i signed the potition to make him live on £53 a week you and i know he wont do it he spends morethan that on his tea break in a morning im afraid people like him distgust me im not against people having money good luck to them what he dose is rub it in peoples faces and makes statments like this with no intention of folowing them trough in my opinion hes a 2 faced incomptant spoilt brat who likes saying look what ive got so break you im allright jack he was the same when he was leader of the con you party total wasre of a good skin >:( >:( >:( >:(
by the way did i say i dont like the bloke either sorry if i missed that bit out >:( >:( >:( >:(
:y :y :y he wont do it anyway all mouth :y :y
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As OOFers will already know, I don't have much time for any politicians, no matter what their colour.
However, I do think that the current tory mob (most of them) are trying to do the right thing, given the restrictions placed upon them.
Its absolutely no point being all wishy-washy when trying to radicially change big, burgeoning, broken departments. It has to be a "lets truely start again" approach, that everyone has to abide by. Trying to do it piecemeal, it just will not work, and become the beaurocratic nightmare that it already is.
The NHS desperately needs this kind of radical approach as well. And as per another thread, so does Royal Mail ;D
We've spent too long - probably 15yrs or more - where benefits have become easier than work, and DLA has become too easy to wrangle. This is a situation where the genuinely needy become the minority :'(
We already know that both the welfare and NHS are currently unstainable. We know we cannot borrow more money than we already have planned over the next 4 years. So we have to make serious inroads to cutting spend.
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totaly agree with you TB things cant go on the way they are but they need to look at what it is doing to people like me who cant go to work and earn out of the problem though id love to there way is a good one but not enough thought has gone into the effects it is having on the weakest in society just a litle bit of savey would have had people like me supporting these changes what dosent help there cause is prats like IDS shouting his mouth off when we all know hes not going to do what he preaches
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totaly agree with you TB things cant go on the way they are but they need to look at what it is doing to people like me who cant go to work and earn out of the problem though id love to there way is a good one but not enough thought has gone into the effects it is having on the weakest in society just a litle bit of savey would have had people like me supporting these changes what dosent help there cause is prats like IDS shouting his mouth off when we all know hes not going to do what he preaches
The numbers involved are so large, that a genuine case-by-case basis is not feasible. That many reassessments, and all the pen pushing around that, it wouldn't work, and things would stay as they are.
I sincerely hope that once this is implemented, they can start on a case by case reassessment of the genuinely needy, only be much harser on the assessments than they have been over the last 15yrs or so.
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But as a blanket set of simple-ish rules, I think this is a good start to work from.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ_W6loKc88 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ_W6loKc88)
sorry nick but if i had that atitude i would deserve everything they could throw at me >:( >:(
ok yes i smoke but i only smoke 1/2 oz a week but its the last thing that we buy i dont drink yes i like a drink like most people but my liquid intake is limited to i ltr a day this is because of kidney failure and includes all liquid in food and drink you want to try it its hard i dont have sky i do have youveiw only because i dont pay for it my mother sometimes buys me some baccy it is a luxury not a necessity you try living on what i get a week its not alot but there is some benefits i can claim for but i dont as long as we can manage im happy this is my way of geting some solice in saying im doing my bit it eases my cons once i do this not to shout about it but if you feel the way ido about living off benefits it helps
Also ozzycat lets face it that women has her own mental health / personality disorder problems. She is not right and is unemployable in her current state. She needs help, and shame on a TV station taking advantage and showing her in the light they have. No, yet again, it is one part of society targeting the weakest and poorest in society to the delight of the Coalition. Divide and conquer. It is sickening. Haul the millionaires and billionaires in front of the cameras who pay peanuts in taxes; oh, hang on they have the establishment in their pocket and after all are the elite!! ::) ::) ::)
That's a guess on your part, isn't it, Lizzie? ???
No, after being heavily involved in mental health care, direct, with the Police and CPS as an advisor, I can usually detect when someone has an "issue" that needs professional help. That woman has issues. ;)
Give her help, clense the gene pool ::) ::)
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totaly agree with you TB things cant go on the way they are but they need to look at what it is doing to people like me who cant go to work and earn out of the problem though id love to there way is a good one but not enough thought has gone into the effects it is having on the weakest in society just a litle bit of savey would have had people like me supporting these changes what dosent help there cause is prats like IDS shouting his mouth off when we all know hes not going to do what he preaches
The numbers involved are so large, that a genuine case-by-case basis is not feasible. That many reassessments, and all the pen pushing around that, it wouldn't work, and things would stay as they are.
I sincerely hope that once this is implemented, they can start on a case by case reassessment of the genuinely needy, only be much harser on the assessments than they have been over the last 15yrs or so.
But that is exactly what they are trying to do, by using a company, ATOL, who have proved themselves to be incompetent, inefficient, and not even able to finalise their reports for the DWP using what they have in front of them as fact. The policy seems to be rule out as many claimants as possible even when someone is seriously disabled, then leave them to appeal going through reams of paperwork, tribunal hearings over months. ATOL are costing millions yet producing a lack of logical and accurate assessment with two thirds of appeals being upheld to the claimants advantage. Their back to work schemes have also been a farce, with individuals being found "employment" that doesn't suit the individual or company involved. The Claimant gets £300 for taking the new job, only to be back as unemployed in a very short time, to then start the process off agian with yet another £300 paid. ATOS gain great profit, the claimant gains some useful cash, but no meaningful employment is actually achieved for the claimant.
It is a mess, and a result of bad management by the government, and of course the thousands of highly paid civil servants at the top pushing paper!
As stated before, very real grief is being caused to people genuinely in need for whatever reason, whilst the government are achieving little, apart from a guaranteed defeat at the next general election in 2015 (if they last that long!!) ::) ::)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ_W6loKc88 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ_W6loKc88)
sorry nick but if i had that atitude i would deserve everything they could throw at me >:( >:(
ok yes i smoke but i only smoke 1/2 oz a week but its the last thing that we buy i dont drink yes i like a drink like most people but my liquid intake is limited to i ltr a day this is because of kidney failure and includes all liquid in food and drink you want to try it its hard i dont have sky i do have youveiw only because i dont pay for it my mother sometimes buys me some baccy it is a luxury not a necessity you try living on what i get a week its not alot but there is some benefits i can claim for but i dont as long as we can manage im happy this is my way of geting some solice in saying im doing my bit it eases my cons once i do this not to shout about it but if you feel the way ido about living off benefits it helps
Also ozzycat lets face it that women has her own mental health / personality disorder problems. She is not right and is unemployable in her current state. She needs help, and shame on a TV station taking advantage and showing her in the light they have. No, yet again, it is one part of society targeting the weakest and poorest in society to the delight of the Coalition. Divide and conquer. It is sickening. Haul the millionaires and billionaires in front of the cameras who pay peanuts in taxes; oh, hang on they have the establishment in their pocket and after all are the elite!! ::) ::) ::)
That's a guess on your part, isn't it, Lizzie? ???
No, after being heavily involved in mental health care, direct, with the Police and CPS as an advisor, I can usually detect when someone has an "issue" that needs professional help. That woman has issues. ;)
Give her help, clense the gene pool ::) ::)
I hope you are joking Cleggy, as that is exactly the kind of Nazi sentiment I am warning about. ::) ::) ::) ::) Yes, give her help and give all the others assistance with their lives. :y :y
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Tongue in cheek Lizzie, but where do all there retards come from? ???
What help can they be given? Jusy enough vouchers for food and heating we can't afford to pay for their habits and luxuries :( :(
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totaly agree with you TB things cant go on the way they are but they need to look at what it is doing to people like me who cant go to work and earn out of the problem though id love to there way is a good one but not enough thought has gone into the effects it is having on the weakest in society just a litle bit of savey would have had people like me supporting these changes what dosent help there cause is prats like IDS shouting his mouth off when we all know hes not going to do what he preaches
The numbers involved are so large, that a genuine case-by-case basis is not feasible. That many reassessments, and all the pen pushing around that, it wouldn't work, and things would stay as they are.
I sincerely hope that once this is implemented, they can start on a case by case reassessment of the genuinely needy, only be much harser on the assessments than they have been over the last 15yrs or so.
But that is exactly what they are trying to do, by using a company, ATOL, who have proved themselves to be incompetent, inefficient, and not even able to finalise their reports for the DWP using what they have in front of them as fact. The policy seems to be rule out as many claimants as possible even when someone is seriously disabled, then leave them to appeal going through reams of paperwork, tribunal hearings over months. ATOL are costing millions yet producing a lack of logical and accurate assessment with two thirds of appeals being upheld to the claimants advantage. Their back to work schemes have also been a farce, with individuals being found "employment" that doesn't suit the individual or company involved. The Claimant gets £300 for taking the new job, only to be back as unemployed in a very short time, to then start the process off agian with yet another £300 paid. ATOS gain great profit, the claimant gains some useful cash, but no meaningful employment is actually achieved for the claimant.
It is a mess, and a result of bad management by the government, and of course the thousands of highly paid civil servants at the top pushing paper!
As stated before, very real grief is being caused to people genuinely in need for whatever reason, whilst the government are achieving little, apart from a guaranteed defeat at the next general election in 2015 (if they last that long!!) ::) ::)
ATOL or ATOS?
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Ever thought of a career in proof reading Steve ? :-\ ;D
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totaly agree with you TB things cant go on the way they are but they need to look at what it is doing to people like me who cant go to work and earn out of the problem though id love to there way is a good one but not enough thought has gone into the effects it is having on the weakest in society just a litle bit of savey would have had people like me supporting these changes what dosent help there cause is prats like IDS shouting his mouth off when we all know hes not going to do what he preaches
The numbers involved are so large, that a genuine case-by-case basis is not feasible. That many reassessments, and all the pen pushing around that, it wouldn't work, and things would stay as they are.
I sincerely hope that once this is implemented, they can start on a case by case reassessment of the genuinely needy, only be much harser on the assessments than they have been over the last 15yrs or so.
But that is exactly what they are trying to do, by using a company, ATOL, who have proved themselves to be incompetent, inefficient, and not even able to finalise their reports for the DWP using what they have in front of them as fact. The policy seems to be rule out as many claimants as possible even when someone is seriously disabled, then leave them to appeal going through reams of paperwork, tribunal hearings over months. ATOL are costing millions yet producing a lack of logical and accurate assessment with two thirds of appeals being upheld to the claimants advantage. Their back to work schemes have also been a farce, with individuals being found "employment" that doesn't suit the individual or company involved. The Claimant gets £300 for taking the new job, only to be back as unemployed in a very short time, to then start the process off agian with yet another £300 paid. ATOS gain great profit, the claimant gains some useful cash, but no meaningful employment is actually achieved for the claimant.
It is a mess, and a result of bad management by the government, and of course the thousands of highly paid civil servants at the top pushing paper!
As stated before, very real grief is being caused to people genuinely in need for whatever reason, whilst the government are achieving little, apart from a guaranteed defeat at the next general election in 2015 (if they last that long!!) ::) ::)
ATOL or ATOS?
ATOS Steve, but when I was typing I was thinking of flying away from it all to somewhere hot! ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
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What help can they be given? Jusy enough vouchers for food and heating we can't afford to pay for their habits and luxuries :( :(
I was queuing in the bank in Bletchley earlier in the week, and having to listen to a pair of fat slags grumbling about the bedroom tax thing, and how they need 3 bed houses for their (probably fatherless) children. Sounded like at least one of them only had one little brat. And would you believe that one of them rang for a taxi to pick them up from a pizza take away in about 20mins, and take her to her house about a mile away. Looked like she had a smartphone.
The poor cashier then had to listen to one of them bore her about how she wasn't going to be able to survive .
Although frustrated that these fat slags, who clearly didn't work, decided to visit the bank at lunchtime, and delay me, I thought I had the last laugh thinking that pizza and taxi would explain their weight problem.
Anyway, I paid the cheque in that I was there for, walked out of the bank, to see the two fat slags smoking outside.
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What help can they be given? Jusy enough vouchers for food and heating we can't afford to pay for their habits and luxuries :( :(
I was queuing in the bank in Bletchley earlier in the week, and having to listen to a pair of fat slags grumbling about the bedroom tax thing, and how they need 3 bed houses for their (probably fatherless) children. Sounded like at least one of them only had one little brat. And would you believe that one of them rang for a taxi to pick them up from a pizza take away in about 20mins, and take her to her house about a mile away. Looked like she had a smartphone.
The poor cashier then had to listen to one of them bore her about how she wasn't going to be able to survive .
Although frustrated that these fat slags, who clearly didn't work, decided to visit the bank at lunchtime, and delay me, I thought I had the last laugh thinking that pizza and taxi would explain their weight problem.
Anyway, I paid the cheque in that I was there for, walked out of the bank, to see the two fat slags smoking outside.
Oh yes, they do exist as well TB, and that must be tackled. But to tar everyone with the same brush is going too far, and very inefficient. ;)
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What help can they be given? Jusy enough vouchers for food and heating we can't afford to pay for their habits and luxuries :( :(
I was queuing in the bank in Bletchley earlier in the week, and having to listen to a pair of fat slags grumbling about the bedroom tax thing, and how they need 3 bed houses for their (probably fatherless) children. Sounded like at least one of them only had one little brat. And would you believe that one of them rang for a taxi to pick them up from a pizza take away in about 20mins, and take her to her house about a mile away. Looked like she had a smartphone.
The poor cashier then had to listen to one of them bore her about how she wasn't going to be able to survive .
Although frustrated that these fat slags, who clearly didn't work, decided to visit the bank at lunchtime, and delay me, I thought I had the last laugh thinking that pizza and taxi would explain their weight problem.
Anyway, I paid the cheque in that I was there for, walked out of the bank, to see the two fat slags smoking outside.
Oh yes, they do exist as well TB, and that must be tackled. But to tar everyone with the same brush is going too far, and very inefficient. ;)
IMHO, it makes sense to apply a rule that will sort out the majority. Thus I think this is the right way.
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or at least a better way than we have been using up til now
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I posted this first on the Philpot thread, but on reflection I think it belongs more on this one:
I have loved this extract since 'discovering' it at uni:
Two nations between whom there is no intercourse and no sympathy; who are ignorant of each other's habits, thoughts and feelings, as if they were dwellers in different zones or inhabitants of different planets; who are formed by different breeding, are fed by different food, are ordered by different manners, and are not governed by the same laws ... THE RICH AND THE POOR.
Benjamin Disraeli 1845
From his novel Sybil.
A Conservative Prime Minister in Victorian England, he is my ideal, along with the later Churchill, of a Conservative Socialist that I profess to be. In 1874, the Conservatives won a huge election victory and Disraeli once more became prime minister, aged 70. He concentrated on social reform, with a codifying of the law on public health, passed laws to prevent labour exploitation and recognise trades unions. :y :y
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or at least a better way than we have been using up til now
I agree, but the current government are using a sledgehammer to crack a nut! ;)
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or at least a better way than we have been using up til now
I agree, but the current government are using a sledgehammer to crack a nut! ;)
Because its what is needed.
We could fanny around for years coming up with something better, but time isn't on our side.
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or at least a better way than we have been using up til now
I agree, but the current government are using a sledgehammer to crack a nut! ;)
Because its what is needed.
We could fanny around for years coming up with something better, but time isn't on our side.
:y :y :y :y been left far toooooooo long it needs to be harsh. :y
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or at least a better way than we have been using up til now
I agree, but the current government are using a sledgehammer to crack a nut! ;)
Because its what is needed.
We could fanny around for years coming up with something better, but time isn't on our side.
:y :y :y :y been left far toooooooo long it needs to be harsh. :y
Now that's a correct political view :y just shoot the retards ::)
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or at least a better way than we have been using up til now
I agree, but the current government are using a sledgehammer to crack a nut! ;)
Because its what is needed.
We could fanny around for years coming up with something better, but time isn't on our side.
:y :y :y :y been left far toooooooo long it needs to be harsh. :y
Now that's a correct political view :y just shoot the retards ::)
[/highlight]
You people are just so comfortable in your in your own little world you've forgotten to look at the bigger picture! This is how Fascism thrives! >:(
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When I got my last Omega 15 years ago, new, it was described to me as a 'bosses car'. I didn't see it or myself that way (my boss had a E class) and I didn't like the description. Now it is cheap and old it seems to have become a 'UKIP car' and I like that description even less. Possibly UKIPers don't have enough wealth I wish they would get a loan and get themselves the new Range Rovers I'm sure they would be happier in.
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I wouldnt be seen dead in Range Rover. ::) ;D
The political establishment have recently announced that they think they have found UKIP have technically broken party donation regulations,and are going to try to bankrupt them over the issue. (UKIP deny the allegation btw).
Somone has come forward and offered to give UKIP the £367,000 that they might have to give back.I presume this UKIPer isnt someone who "doesnt have enough wealth". ;)
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yes but I meant the UKIP voters not the people behind the party which no doubt includes some very wealthy people (but probably not as rich as the Tory backers http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/lord-ashcroft-tax-scandal-unpaid-204696 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/lord-ashcroft-tax-scandal-unpaid-204696))
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Tbh,UKIP voters now are from right across the spectrum,which is why they are scaring the bejaysus out of the three big parties.
Years ago they were a party of of disaffected blue rinse old school Tories,but they are now taking votes from all three parties as well as from people who hadn voted for years,becuse they knew the big three are all unprincipled liars. ;)
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You people are just so comfortable in your in your own little world you've forgotten to look at the bigger picture! This is how Fascism thrives! >:(
Notice how, under the New Labour government, that BNP were making massive inroads?
Can't remember if it was on this site, or another forum, I got whipped down for suggesting that we will see another extreme fascist state in the next 30 years...
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You people are just so comfortable in your in your own little world you've forgotten to look at the bigger picture! This is how Fascism thrives! >:(
Notice how, under the New Labour government, that BNP were making massive inroads?
Can't remember if it was on this site, or another forum, I got whipped down for suggesting that we will see another extreme fascist state in the next 30 years...
And in general what have I been warning about in various posts that could be the advanced start down that road?! ::) ::) ::) ;) ;)
I will just say, take note of the warning from history.
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A cull of retards Lizzie the only solution ::):y
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A cull of retards Lizzie the only solution ::):y
that is going to far . hitler done that .and nobody liked that :y :y
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A cull of retards Lizzie the only solution ::):y
that is going to far . hitler done that .and nobody liked that :y :y
That's new, a German calling all Jews retards ::)
Think some maybe offended a your comment ;)
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A cull of retards Lizzie the only solution ::):y
that is going to far . hitler done that .and nobody liked that :y :y
I have usually a reasonable sense of humour, but on that subject I have none! A far too serious subject for that and.....................no, I'll say no more :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
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I think the smilies indicates that was tongue in cheek....
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Come on then Lizzie let's be serious, how do you propose to cure this culture of low IQ morons mass breeding another generation of scoungers that we have to pay for ???
Remember there are the genuine disabled and needy who have contributed to our welfare system and deserve a decent lifestyle. :y
Personally I would limit all benefit to two children, after that they get no more money or bigger houses. If you take away the reason for these retards breeding then they'll stop. If having another child means thay have to stop smoking, drinking, eating junk food and watching Jeremy Kyle all day on their large screen surround sound TV's to look after the child then perhaps they'll stop. ???
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Come on then Lizzie let's be serious, how do you propose to cure this culture of low IQ morons mass breeding another generation of scoungers that we have to pay for ???
Personally I would limit all benefit to two children, after that they get no more money or bigger houses. If you take away the reason for these retards breeding then they'll stop. If having another child means thay have to stop smoking, drinking, eating junk food and watching Jeremy Kyle all day on their large screen surround sound TV's to look after the child then perhaps they'll stop. ???
You don't. In God's world we are all born equal, to have a right to life. We all come in different forms, and your birth status in whatever household does not determine your IQ. Man cannot again try and influence that, and separate people by grading, selection, and even "evacuation" but instead provide opportunities of employment to all and a chance in life given via good, honest, education. No, there should be no more rights to a council house for a young single mother, and the responsibilities of having children has to be educated into young girls at an early age, with family units again being encouraged to thrive. With the political will that can be done.
However, there are no easy solutions; there never have been. The poor houses, the convents, orphanages, the military and prisons, all tried in the past to "model" the less fortunate's in life to "better ways", but that all failed and was morally wrong.
When everyone is given true equal opportunities, regardless of birth conditions, wealth, who you know, then society can start to overcome it's current problems. But if the poor are brought up with the belief they cannot better themselves, and remain in the same near slum conditions of their family life, what there is, that culture will remain. Mass employment is just one answer, to again provide a reason to live, to advance and have pride in one's life.
Remember, class has never provided a predicable level of IQ and common sense. Many born of low beginnings have powered this country to greatness, whilst many very well educated and privileged individuals have been idiotic, bumbling, idiots who have done nothing to advance Great Britain or themselves. That is why "selection" will never work, and why even Hitler eventually decided in April 1945 the German race was not special at all, and classed them all as weak, cowardly, traitors, who did not deserve anything but to die as the cowards they were to the bitter end. Selection had thus proved nothing, even when tried by one man, one regime, of whatever substance, it could never work.
Life is not perfect, it is not fair, it is often unjust, but as individuals just count your blessings that you live, you breath, you function, and have friends / family around you and live in Great Britain. Never sneer at those less fortunate to you, but just say "But for the grace of God go I".
Hold your hand out and and help those that need it, then your own life will make more sense.
Remember the statement I quoted before:
Two nations between whom there is no intercourse and no sympathy; who are ignorant of each other's habits, thoughts and feelings, as if they were dwellers in different zones or inhabitants of different planets; who are formed by different breeding, are fed by different food, are ordered by different manners, and are not governed by the same laws ... THE RICH AND THE POOR.
Benjamin Disraeli 1845
That is what we all must try and overcome. Remember, this life is not forever and how we act in this life will be judged when we go through to the next :y :y
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So lots of Bulldog crossed with a Shitzu as per ::) ::) but no ideas for a solution to the problem ???
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So lots of Bulldog crossed with a Shitzu as per ::) ::) but no ideas for a solution to the problem ???
;D ;D ;D
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I have just read this entire thread start to finish, and it makes incredibly interesting reading, provoking emotions which I never knew existed, both good and bad.
I could spend an hour writing a very long and boring post addressing much of what has been written, but I think I shall just add one point which seems to have been missed;
You cannot make an omelette without breaking eggs. And lets be honest, the welfare system is one forking great big omelette!
When tackling a problem of this magnitude, mistakes are bound to happen. People who genuinely need financial assistance will be left out...... People who are fit and able to work are going to escape the net and still receive financial assistance when it is not needed.
What is VERY clear is that the whole system NEEDS to be shaken. With all the will in the world it cannot be done without dropping some shell into the mix.
To all those who are genuinely suffering more-so because of the recent changes, I sincerely hope that the mistakes are corrected swiftly and your lives are restored to the best level of normality that can be achieved.
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So lots of Bulldog crossed with a Shitzu as per ::) ::) but no ideas for a solution to the problem ???
That is your opinion Cleggy, and that is fair enough :y :y
However, I have indicated a solution, but it would take imagination, hard work, and true leadership to bring it about. The first hurdle would be to convince others to start on that path. That is unlikely in the current world of politics or social maturity. Maybe another 50 years to go! ::) ::) ::)
Especially when some shout out "cull the retards" so easily. Let's give a better solution considered by some: cull all those aged 70 or over. That would save billions of pounds. How does that feel? ::) ::) ::)
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Plenty of 70 + year olds make a very worthwhile contribution to society. :)
STEMO being a very obvious exception. :y
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Plenty of 70 + year olds make a very worthwhile contribution to society. :)
They block up the car park in my local fish restaurant on a Friday. It's very entertaining though, fighting for spaces in slow motion. ;D
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Plenty of 70 + year olds make a very worthwhile contribution to society. :)
We block up the car park in my local fish restaurant on a Friday. It's very entertaining though, fighting for spaces in slow motion. ;D
The prosecution rests. ;D
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A cull of retards Lizzie the only solution ::):y
that is going to far . hitler done that .and nobody liked that :y :y
That's new, a German calling all Jews retards ::)
Think some maybe offended a your comment ;)
i wasn't talking about jews . if you looked at history he killed retards as well and sick and infirm . so before making comments like that look at the history books :y :y and did i mention jews .i think not >:( >:(
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Remember, this life is not forever and how we act in this life will be judged when we go through to the next[/highlight] :y :y
I'm sorry Lizzie, i dont normally comment on threads like this....but
If you think theres a next life.....then thats your opinion......but in my opinion...
When your dead.....your either bbq'd or shoved in a wooden box, buried and rot away....end of :)
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Yes. Some people have a knack of making fairy stories sound so matter-of-fact.
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A cull of retards Lizzie the only solution ::):y
that is going to far . hitler done that .and nobody liked that :y :y
That's new, a German calling all Jews retards ::)
Think some maybe offended a your comment ;)
i wasn't talking about jews . if you looked at history he killed retards as well and sick and infirm . so before making comments like that look at the history books :y :y and did i mention jews .i think not >:( >:(
Yes indeed. Can't have retards in the master race.
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A cull of retards Lizzie the only solution ::):y
that is going to far . hitler done that .and nobody liked that :y :y
That's new, a German calling all Jews retards ::)
Think some maybe offended a your comment ;)
i wasn't talking about jews . if you looked at history he killed retards as well and sick and infirm . so before making comments like that look at the history books :y :y and did i mention jews .i think not >:( >:(
Yes indeed. Can't have retards in the master race.
Or women with history degrees ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D
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Still laughing at TB's encounter with two fat slags ;D ;D ;D ;D
The simple fact is those fat slags in question should be working. Working may also help them lose weight. And give them a sense of purpose instead of being fat. And slaggish. And not make working people pay for their fat offspring.
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For me vouchers is the answer. Reasonable allowances in the form of vouchers for food from Asda/Tesco etc,same for clothes from the same outlets,vouchers for electricity,gas and similar for housing.Anything more than that should come from gainful employment imo.
I would be happy enough for people who have a long history of work behind them but have lost their jobs to have a bit more,but for the career benefits people - vouchers and only vouchers.No money involved whatsoever.
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For me vouchers is the answer. Reasonable allowances in the form of vouchers for food from Asda/Tesco etc,same for clothes from the same outlets,vouchers for electricity,gas and similar for housing.Anything more than that should come from gainful employment imo.
I would be happy enough for people who have a long history of work behind them but have lost their jobs to have a bit more,but for the career benefits people - vouchers and only vouchers.No money involved whatsoever.
You forgot the vouchers for the fags. The slags in Bletchley need their fags. And Lotto tickets.
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Fack em. ;) ;D
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For me vouchers is the answer. Reasonable allowances in the form of vouchers for food from Asda/Tesco etc,same for clothes from the same outlets,vouchers for electricity,gas and similar for housing.Anything more than that should come from gainful employment imo.
I would be happy enough for people who have a long history of work behind them but have lost their jobs to have a bit more,but for the career benefits people - vouchers and only vouchers.No money involved whatsoever.
Good idea but, of course, it wouldn't work. Vouchers are currency, just as money, and a black market would be up and running in no time.
You need to start looking at things from a scousers point of view, Albs. ;D
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Non scousers just cant do that Steve. ;D.........print the recipients name on the vouchers,with ID to be shown when spending them ?
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Non scousers just cant do that Steve. ;D.........print the recipients name on the vouchers,with ID to be shown when spending them ?
The reason they couldn't/ wouldn't differentiate between people or couples earning above 50K when they took away child benefit was that it was too much trouble and would cost more than it saved.
Work it out.
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It would be money well spent imo,if it killed off the entitlement culture. :y
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so lets see where do i start so acording to some im aretart because i am disabled so should be put down or as some put it im not worth the ground i walk on or to some i need to be pitied so let me put my piont of veiw
im 52 ive worked and paid my taxes and NI untill 2008 when my world csashed around my ears but try as i might i could not go back to work ive never claimed aall of the benefits i could only enough to survive so if people think that i dont deserve what i get thats your opinion
The way this thread is going it turning in to a whitch hunt against certain members of this forum im not saying me because you all have always suported me but i think this is going off the piont of the tread i agree that some people milk the system but until this or any goverment find away to stop the scroungers we are stuck with it
so goodnight and may your god go withyou ozzycat
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so lets see where do i start so acording to some im aretart because i am disabled so should be put down or as some put it im not worth the ground i walk on or to some i need to be pitied so let me put my piont of veiw
im 52 ive worked and paid my taxes and NI untill 2008 when my world csashed around my ears but try as i might i could not go back to work ive never claimed aall of the benefits i could only enough to survive so if people think that i dont deserve what i get thats your opinion
The way this thread is going it turning in to a whitch hunt against certain members of this forum im not saying me because you all have always suported me but i think this is going off the piont of the tread i agree that some people milk the system but until this or any goverment find away to stop the scroungers we are stuck with it
so goodnight and may your god go withyou ozzycat
Kev you know i understand your situation the same as you do mine , im sure things will get sorted for the best . Many people dont understand unless they have been forced into a situation out of their control , its a very unfair system for the vulnerable and weak with key helpful services being cut to get that help >:( Cutting the services that provide help is also a big issue and one that i feel has been overlooked OR the government has planned this so we cant get help . Local CAB have a 6 week waiting list for appointments and they are snowed under trying to sort out this mess the government has created >:(
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ozzycat,
You are so wrong with that last post, I have stated all along that those in need deserve a decent standard of living. You have contributed to this so called welfare system and through no fault of your own have found it lacking when you need the support.
I can't see anyone refering to you as a retard, or a scrounger you are deserving of a system that you paid into for a time of need but can't get it because of the professional scroungers faking illness, womb for benefits, immigrants or addiction who should be given a very basic allowance to live on.
You do contribute to society in fact you make a worthy addition to this forum and I for one don't pity you, although I feel sorry for the predicament you find yourself in :y :y :y
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so lets see where do i start so acording to some im aretart because i am disabled so should be put down or as some put it im not worth the ground i walk on or to some i need to be pitied so let me put my piont of veiw
im 52 ive worked and paid my taxes and NI untill 2008 when my world csashed around my ears but try as i might i could not go back to work ive never claimed aall of the benefits i could only enough to survive so if people think that i dont deserve what i get thats your opinion
The way this thread is going it turning in to a whitch hunt against certain members of this forum im not saying me because you all have always suported me but i think this is going off the piont of the tread i agree that some people milk the system but until this or any goverment find away to stop the scroungers we are stuck with it
so goodnight and may your god go withyou ozzycat
i agree with you kevin . i am not disabled because i want to be , i would rather work , but cant so i am stuck . i am just getting fed up with people calling me a scrounger , which i am not . >:( >:( >:(
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From what I've read, the theme running through this thread is one of sympathy for deserving cases and anger/frustration for those who sponge. Unless I've missed something.....
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From what I've read, the theme running through this thread is one of sympathy for deserving cases and anger/frustration for those who sponge. Unless I've missed something.....
but not from some :y :y
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From what I've read, the theme running through this thread is one of sympathy for deserving cases and anger/frustration for those who sponge. Unless I've missed something.....
but not from some :y :y
And who are you refering to ???
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so lets see where do i start so acording to some im aretart because i am disabled so should be put down or as some put it im not worth the ground i walk on or to some i need to be pitied so let me put my piont of veiw
im 52 ive worked and paid my taxes and NI untill 2008 when my world csashed around my ears but try as i might i could not go back to work ive never claimed aall of the benefits i could only enough to survive so if people think that i dont deserve what i get thats your opinion
The way this thread is going it turning in to a whitch hunt against certain members of this forum im not saying me because you all have always suported me but i think this is going off the piont of the tread i agree that some people milk the system but until this or any goverment find away to stop the scroungers we are stuck with it
so goodnight and may your god go withyou ozzycat
i agree with you kevin . i am not disabled because i want to be , i would rather work , but cant so i am stuck . i am just getting fed up with people calling me a scrounger , which i am not . >:( >:( >:(
Since I started this thread (part of me wishes I hadn't! ;) ), let me say that those – like yourself – who would happily work if they were able, should be amply supported by society. :y
We need to look at an analogous situation in the world of insurance: due to fraudulent claims, premiums for all have risen. Same with welfare. Due to scroungers and false claimants, there is far less in the pot for deserving cases such as yours. It is a sad fact that we live in a society where those with no moral scruples cash in...to the detriment of those who really need it. >:(
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ozzycat,
You are so wrong with that last post, I have stated all along that those in need deserve a decent standard of living. You have contributed to this so called welfare system and through no fault of your own have found it lacking when you need the support.
I can't see anyone refering to you as a retard, or a scrounger you are deserving of a system that you paid into for a time of need but can't get it because of the professional scroungers faking illness, womb for benefits, immigrants or addiction who should be given a very basic allowance to live on.
You do contribute to society in fact you make a worthy addition to this forum and I for one don't pity you, although I feel sorry for the predicament you find yourself in :y :y :y
Agreed.I thought it was clear that the people who are being criticised are the workshy scroungers who have a sense of entitlement to taxpayers money. :y
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From what I've read, the theme running through this thread is one of sympathy for deserving cases and anger/frustration for those who sponge. Unless I've missed something.....
but not from some :y :y
And who are you refering to ???
i am not going to mention any names :y
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So many of us disabled 'HAVE' to attend and pass a medical. So why does my blood boil when I watch so many scroungers arriving at the local dole office.. 'by taxi', which they don't even bother these days to have drop them 'round the corner', but right outside the door? And then there's the element attending to get their payout, dripping in gold, branded clothing being shown off to all, the obligatory BMW or Merc parked very close by. "WHY" does no-one ask them to attend a meeting? 'Now then Mr. X. You are 27 years old, have never worked in your life, but drive a BMW, are covered in 'bling' and designer clothing, 'how did you get it'?? I would love a job but no-one will employ me, I am the wrong side of 60, have had 2 strokes, and do not use up too much of others precious oxygen due to my emphysema. I watched a programme on the TV quite some time ago about airport staff employed to watch baggage security monitors, half of them were asleep, some were reading the paper, chatting etc, anything but watching the monitors. I said to the wife, 'now there's a job I could do'. But no. Guess I'm stuck with looking after her full time earning my average 48p per hour.. " DAMN "! I love being a scrounger...
Up until 1992 I owned my own factory, I well remember my accountant complaining that I had paid myself £52,000 that year, I can't remember how much tax the government had taken off me over the previous 10 years, and won't even mention the regular £14,500 quarterly VAT payments I paid to the government, employed as I was as an unpaid tax collector. The bloody government have sctrounged off me ALL my life, I think they owe me a little return... :(
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So many of us disabled 'HAVE' to attend and pass a medical. So why does my blood boil when I watch so many scroungers arriving at the local dole office.. 'by taxi', which they don't even bother these days to have drop them 'round the corner', but right outside the door? And then there's the element attending to get their payout, dripping in gold, branded clothing being shown off to all, the obligatory BMW or Merc parked very close by. "WHY" does no-one ask them to attend a meeting? 'Now then Mr. X. You are 27 years old, have never worked in your life, but drive a BMW, are covered in 'bling' and designer clothing, 'how did you get it'?? I would love a job but no-one will employ me, I am the wrong side of 60, have had 2 strokes, and do not use up too much of others precious oxygen due to my emphysema. I watched a programme on the TV quite some time ago about airport staff employed to watch baggage security monitors, half of them were asleep, some were reading the paper, chatting etc, anything but watching the monitors. I said to the wife, 'now there's a job I could do'. But no. Guess I'm stuck with looking after her full time earning my average 48p per hour.. " DAMN "! I love being a scrounger...
Up until 1992 I owned my own factory, I well remember my accountant complaining that I had paid myself £52,000 that year, I can't remember how much tax the government had taken off me over the previous 10 years, and won't even mention the regular £14,500 quarterly VAT payments I paid to the government, employed as I was as an unpaid tax collector. The bloody government have sctrounged off me ALL my life, I think they owe me a little return... :(
:y :y
But i wonder where our paid taxes went while we were working , probably funding a nice little pension now for another MP or even worse a EURO MP >:( >:(
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So many of us disabled 'HAVE' to attend and pass a medical. So why does my blood boil when I watch so many scroungers arriving at the local dole office.. 'by taxi', which they don't even bother these days to have drop them 'round the corner', but right outside the door? And then there's the element attending to get their payout, dripping in gold, branded clothing being shown off to all, the obligatory BMW or Merc parked very close by. "WHY" does no-one ask them to attend a meeting? 'Now then Mr. X. You are 27 years old, have never worked in your life, but drive a BMW, are covered in 'bling' and designer clothing, 'how did you get it'?? I would love a job but no-one will employ me, I am the wrong side of 60, have had 2 strokes, and do not use up too much of others precious oxygen due to my emphysema. I watched a programme on the TV quite some time ago about airport staff employed to watch baggage security monitors, half of them were asleep, some were reading the paper, chatting etc, anything but watching the monitors. I said to the wife, 'now there's a job I could do'. But no. Guess I'm stuck with looking after her full time earning my average 48p per hour.. " DAMN "! I love being a scrounger...
Up until 1992 I owned my own factory, I well remember my accountant complaining that I had paid myself £52,000 that year, I can't remember how much tax the government had taken off me over the previous 10 years, and won't even mention the regular £14,500 quarterly VAT payments I paid to the government, employed as I was as an unpaid tax collector. The bloody government have sctrounged off me ALL my life, I think they owe me a little return... :(
:y :y
But i wonder where our paid taxes went while we were working , probably funding a nice little pension now for another MP or even worse a EURO MP >:( >:(
;D ;D ;D ;D
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A cull of retards Lizzie the only solution ::):y
that is going to far . hitler done that .and nobody liked that :y :y
That's new, a German calling all Jews retards ::)
Think some maybe offended a your comment ;)
i wasn't talking about jews . if you looked at history he killed retards as well and sick and infirm . so before making comments like that look at the history books :y :y and did i mention jews .i think not >:( >:(
Yes indeed. Can't have retards in the master race.
Or women with history degrees ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D
Do you mean me Cleggy?! ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
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From what I've read, the theme running through this thread is one of sympathy for deserving cases and anger/frustration for those who sponge. Unless I've missed something.....
Yes Steve, I would settle for that, and how the Coalition are "assessing" existing sick, mentally ill and disabled claimants, apart from those who are desparately seeking work but cannot find it through no fault of their own :y :y
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So many of us disabled 'HAVE' to attend and pass a medical. So why does my blood boil when I watch so many scroungers arriving at the local dole office.. 'by taxi', which they don't even bother these days to have drop them 'round the corner', but right outside the door? And then there's the element attending to get their payout, dripping in gold, branded clothing being shown off to all, the obligatory BMW or Merc parked very close by. "WHY" does no-one ask them to attend a meeting? 'Now then Mr. X. You are 27 years old, have never worked in your life, but drive a BMW, are covered in 'bling' and designer clothing, 'how did you get it'?? I would love a job but no-one will employ me, I am the wrong side of 60, have had 2 strokes, and do not use up too much of others precious oxygen due to my emphysema. I watched a programme on the TV quite some time ago about airport staff employed to watch baggage security monitors, half of them were asleep, some were reading the paper, chatting etc, anything but watching the monitors. I said to the wife, 'now there's a job I could do'. But no. Guess I'm stuck with looking after her full time earning my average 48p per hour.. " DAMN "! I love being a scrounger...
Up until 1992 I owned my own factory, I well remember my accountant complaining that I had paid myself £52,000 that year, I can't remember how much tax the government had taken off me over the previous 10 years, and won't even mention the regular £14,500 quarterly VAT payments I paid to the government, employed as I was as an unpaid tax collector. The bloody government have sctrounged off me ALL my life, I think they owe me a little return... :(
Yes, and interestingly Labour are considering a policy where the benefits are linked to how much you have paid in. Could that be an answer? ??? ??? ???
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Its just spin to try to head off UKIP.They would never do it (even if the EU allowed it). Labour created a client state which won them three elections and almost a fourth,despite the fact their leader was a certifiable window licker who had just destroyed the economy for several generations.That leopard aint going to change its spots.
They are all making right wing noises at the moment (even the illiberal undemocrats !) since the shock of Eastleigh.They dont mean it though,dont believe a word of it.
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Its just spin to try to head off UKIP.They would never do it (even if the EU allowed it). Labour created a client state which won them three elections and almost a fourth,despite the fact their leader was a certifiable window licker who had just destroyed the economy for several generations.That leopard aint going to change its spots.
They are all making right wing noises at the moment (even the illiberal undemocrats !) since the shock of Eastleigh.They dont mean it though,dont believe a word of it.
Can't believe anyone would ever trust anything Labour said ever again. Ever.
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Never underestimate the gullibility of the British electorate webby. ;)
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Its just spin to try to head off UKIP.They would never do it (even if the EU allowed it). Labour created a client state which won them three elections and almost a fourth,despite the fact their leader was a certifiable window licker who had just destroyed the economy for several generations.That leopard aint going to change its spots.
They are all making right wing noises at the moment (even the illiberal undemocrats !) since the shock of Eastleigh.They dont mean it though,dont believe a word of it.
Can't believe anyone would ever trust anything Labour said ever again. Ever.
And that is a great shame! :( :( :( It is of no use to our democracy no matter what party you support, for Labour to be so mis-trusted.
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They are all making right wing noises at the moment (even the illiberal undemocrats !) since the shock of Eastleigh.They dont mean it though,dont believe a word of it.
Same applies to your mate Nige ;)
TBH, politics should be a vocation, not a career. So I'd start by slashing their wages to "average" levels, and making them attend work for the same, predefined hours that the rest of us do.
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At the minute I'm not able to work due to severe headaches but I'm not entitled to be on the sick because I don't fit into one of the ready made categories they have so I have to stay on the dole even though no-one will employ me because I cant guarantee when I will be at work or how long I will be there for which at the minute would be about 1 day a week at the most if even that. A job I could do though and would be more than happy to do for free whilst I am able and on the dole would be to investigate all the other people claiming benefits because I think there are way too many people claiming benefits that are just downright lazy and simply don't want to work, which makes it all the more difficult for the ordinary decent people who have worked every single day they could and payed all there taxes and now when they cant, find they are entitled to sweet f@@k all because the system has been bled dry by these other layabout ba###rds!!!
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i know lets all vote for the monster raving looney party , cant do any worse then these lot ;D ;D ;D
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i know lets all vote for the monster raving looney party , cant do any worse then these lot ;D ;D ;D
Presumably its cos youre a year older that youre so grumpy ;D ;D ;D
I can think of two worse parties - lib dems and labour :y
at least theyre trying to sort the countries problems and not borrow money to get out of them
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i know lets all vote for the monster raving looney party , cant do any worse then these lot ;D ;D ;D
But "this lot" are doing something about it. And good on them. We cannot continue as we have been. Accept that, get over it, and move on.
Option 2 is no welfare payments at all to anyone. So which is the sensible way.
I suspect, by necessity, the latter will come in our lifetime :'(
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it was a joke . like these lot in power now ;D ;D ;D
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i think my last post came out wrong in some places in my opinion you have shown the genuine poorly people on this forum great sympathy and patience for wich i thankyou very much
some people in this once great country of ours have been taught how to milk the system by there parents and grand parents i personly know of onre family who have not worked for 3 genarations but they own there own 5 bed house no mortgage have 3 mobility cars an the 6 of them which is granddad mum /dad 2 kids and one wife who had a job but gave it up when she maried the bone idle idiot they take 3 holidays abroad every year including xmas how do they doit ive no idea but its amazing what a so called bad back can do for you i have never seen no trace of injury in all the years ive known them they are family but to have 6 bad backs in one family amazes me
i cant a ford one holiday let alone 3 ..i lie we are going away 27 april for 1 week this is payed vfor by direct paynebts which is respite for my wife who is a god send she accepted this after they changed the rules so i could go with her she has been offerd this for the last 4 years but refused it because i couldnt go with her and i would have been put in a home
im glad to say that my relatives were refused this thank god
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it does seem pretty strange how the benefits people can't work out that these people say they need all these benefits to live yet they can still manage to afford holidays abroad. Surely it cant be too hard to check when a person left the country last??
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it was a joke . like these lot in power now ;D ;D ;D
Reread my post, ingest, understand.
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it does seem pretty strange how the benefits people can't work out that these people say they need all these benefits to live yet they can still manage to afford holidays abroad. Surely it cant be too hard to check when a person left the country last??
Only the costs of implementing such a system would make the whole thing pointless. Added to that, when was the last time you saw a UK Civil Service computer system delivered on time, on budget, and working? Never ;)
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Hopefully this system will catch all these bone idles out , ive been reading they will target them so that the genuine needy will get the help they deserve . We will see , nearly 100000 have handed in their DLA already for fear of being caught out >:(
Indeed the cost of implementation will be will be astronomic :(
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it does seem pretty strange how the benefits people can't work out that these people say they need all these benefits to live yet they can still manage to afford holidays abroad. Surely it cant be too hard to check when a person left the country last??
Only the costs of implementing such a system would make the whole thing pointless. Added to that, when was the last time you saw a UK Civil Service computer system delivered on time, on budget, and working? Never ;)
Never mind a computer system, if a few civil servants spent a few weeks with a couple of phones and a started with the people longest on benefits and looked at their spending and travelling I think they could save money very quickly. It would be an interesting trial surely? There's bound to be a simple way of doing it, it just needs doing!!
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it does seem pretty strange how the benefits people can't work out that these people say they need all these benefits to live yet they can still manage to afford holidays abroad. Surely it cant be too hard to check when a person left the country last??
Only the costs of implementing such a system would make the whole thing pointless. Added to that, when was the last time you saw a UK Civil Service computer system delivered on time, on budget, and working? Never ;)
Never mind a computer system, if a few civil servants spent a few weeks with a couple of phones and a started with the people longest on benefits and looked at their spending and travelling I think they could save money very quickly. It would be an interesting trial surely? There's bound to be a simple way of doing it, it just needs doing!!
:y :y if they gave me 1% of what i saved them id do it plus id be rich.....rich .....rich i tell you :D :D :D :D :D :D im not going mad but it helps to be mad allready
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I think you and I could sort it no bother ozzy, we'd get those scroungers sorted!!!
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i know lets all vote for the monster raving looney party , cant do any worse then these lot ;D ;D ;D
But "this lot" are doing something about it. And good on them. We cannot continue as we have been. Accept that, get over it, and move on.
Option 2 is no welfare payments at all to anyone.[/b] So which is the sensible way.
I suspect, by necessity, the latter will come in our lifetime :'(
Agreed.That may become unavoidable at some point.
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I think you and I could sort it no bother ozzy, we'd get those scroungers sorted!!!
yea bloody right :y :y :y
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Hopefully this system will catch all these bone idles out , ive been reading they will target them so that the genuine needy will get the help they deserve . We will see , nearly 100000 have handed in their DLA already for fear of being caught out >:(
Indeed the cost of implementation will be will be astronomic :(
Where have you got that from EMD? ??? ???
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i know lets all vote for the monster raving looney party , cant do any worse then these lot ;D ;D ;D
But "this lot" are doing something about it. And good on them. We cannot continue as we have been. Accept that, get over it, and move on.
Option 2 is no welfare payments at all to anyone.[/b] So which is the sensible way.
I suspect, by necessity, the latter will come in our lifetime :'(
Agreed.That may become unavoidable at some point.
Exactly. As usual the abusers ruin it for the majority ::)
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i think my last post came out wrong in some places in my opinion you have shown the genuine poorly people on this forum great sympathy and patience for wich i thankyou very much
some people in this once great country of ours have been taught how to milk the system by there parents and grand parents i personly know of onre family who have not worked for 3 genarations but they own there own 5 bed house no mortgage have 3 mobility cars an the 6 of them which is granddad mum /dad 2 kids and one wife who had a job but gave it up when she maried the bone idle idiot they take 3 holidays abroad every year including xmas how do they doit ive no idea but its amazing what a so called bad back can do for you i have never seen no trace of injury in all the years ive known them they are family but to have 6 bad backs in one family amazes me
i cant a ford one holiday let alone 3 ..i lie we are going away 27 april for 1 week this is payed vfor by direct paynebts which is respite for my wife who is a god send she accepted this after they changed the rules so i could go with her she has been offerd this for the last 4 years but refused it because i couldnt go with her and i would have been put in a home
im glad to say that my relatives were refused this thank god
your wife sounds like mine she wont go on her own . so we got two good ones mate :y :y :y
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Have a wife swap. That would liven the two of you up a bit. :y
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Hopefully this system will catch all these bone idles out , ive been reading they will target them so that the genuine needy will get the help they deserve . We will see , nearly 100000 have handed in their DLA already for fear of being caught out >:(
Indeed the cost of implementation will be will be astronomic :(
Where have you got that from EMD? ??? ???
Try the very first post in this thread, Lizzie. ;)
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Have a wife swap. That would liven the two of you up a bit. :y
nah been maried 29 years this year and i would never swap her for the world i love her more now than when we got maried in 1984 if it wasnt for sandra i would be dead now
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Never mind a computer system, if a few civil servants spent a few weeks with a couple of phones and a started with the people longest on benefits and looked at their spending and travelling I think they could save money very quickly. It would be an interesting trial surely? There's bound to be a simple way of doing it, it just needs doing!!
A good friend of mine was head of a benifit fraud unit, they did quite well, until the Blair government closed it,
at the time they were reducing fraud at about 6 times the cost of the unit, never mind the ones who didnt claim after an investigation.
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Never mind a computer system, if a few civil servants spent a few weeks with a couple of phones and a started with the people longest on benefits and looked at their spending and travelling I think they could save money very quickly. It would be an interesting trial surely? There's bound to be a simple way of doing it, it just needs doing!!
A good friend of mine was head of a benifit fraud unit, they did quite well, until the Blair government closed it,
at the time they were reducing fraud at about 6 times the cost of the unit, never mind the ones who didnt claim after an investigation.
I don't think it would be very hard to catch the vast majority of them, tbh I think if half the people that work in the benefits offices did there jobs properly then we wouldn't have anywhere near as much trouble. Any time I go in most of them are sitting in groups having cups of tea and talking while the place is stuffed with people waiting to be seen. There always seems to be more people standing about behind the counters than there is working imo
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Never mind a computer system, if a few civil servants spent a few weeks with a couple of phones and a started with the people longest on benefits and looked at their spending and travelling I think they could save money very quickly. It would be an interesting trial surely? There's bound to be a simple way of doing it, it just needs doing!!
A good friend of mine was head of a benifit fraud unit, they did quite well, until the Blair government closed it,
at the time they were reducing fraud at about 6 times the cost of the unit, never mind the ones who didnt claim after an investigation.
I don't think it would be very hard to catch the vast majority of them, tbh I think if half the people that work in the benefits offices did there jobs properly then we wouldn't have anywhere near as much trouble. Any time I go in most of them are sitting in groups having cups of tea and talking while the place is stuffed with people waiting to be seen. There always seems to be more people standing about behind the counters than there is working imo
thats local goverment for you mate >:(
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I said several weeks ago that when the Government Benefit Cuts started the Philrich household would be in deep do-do! Well from today I am Officially classed as being fit for work despite having no Medical assessment! Unfortunately as i'm not fit for work in the 'real' world, I would be commiting Fraud if I tried to claim Jobseekers Allowance or whatever it's called these days! I've Appealed the decision but despite the best mediocre efforts of my GP in trying to put right his previous ballsup answering the ESA Inquisition letter, they wont change their decision and the Appeals System is running months behind schedule so we will be forced to survive on a near 50% cut in our Benefit income for the forseeable future with little or no guarantee of winning the Appeal. As from today we are to all intents and purposes Bankrupt as we cannot meet our Mortgage or other outgoings by a Country Mile! We have had our home on the Market since just before the World went Financially tits up this last time, as I saw which way the wind was blowing and had hoped to sell up & buy a little 2 up 2 down outright so we at least had the peace of mind of having a secure roof over our head. Any savings we had have slowly leaked away keeping our head above water, I was paying almost £60 a month for Prescription medicines and appliances until I contracted the Big C and became eligible for free prescriptions for 5 years. I have 2 years left of this much appreciated & very welcome financial respite but when it comes to an end I will have the original drugs etc to pay for plus the extra stuff I now need to manage the after effects of my latest surgery. With any luck ( and i'm not joking in the slightest!) I will die in my sleep sooner rather than later as i'm worth more dead than alive and swmbo would have the house paid for. Whatever your views on the Welfare State, NHS or 'Benefits' in general, your life could be turned upside down at any time by accident, illness or circumstances beyond your control and the 'safety net' which we've paid into to cushion us in time of need is no longer there for the majority who are deserving of it. This Pathetic excuse for a Government & their equally Pathetic predecessors couldn't organise a pissup in a brewery! It makes me ashamed to be British! >:(
+ 1 :y
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Have a wife swap. That would liven the two of you up a bit. :y
nah been maried 29 years this year and i would never swap her for the world i love her more now than when we got maried in 1984 if it wasnt for sandra i would be dead now
i been married 38 years ,and wont swap her for anything :y :y :y
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Have a wife swap. That would liven the two of you up a bit. :y
nah been maried 29 years this year and i would never swap her for the world i love her more now than when we got maried in 1984 if it wasnt for sandra i would be dead now
i been married 38 years ,and wont swap her for anything :y :y :y
I've been married for 30yrs this year
...... and would be open to offers!! WHY! ::) ::) ::)
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Ive been divorced 10 years now (http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c90/wendy448/smileycheer.gif)
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Ive been divorced 10 years now (http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c90/wendy448/smileycheer.gif)
whens the party then ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Ive been divorced 10 years now (http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c90/wendy448/smileycheer.gif)
whens the party then ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
10 years too late :P ;D
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Hopefully this system will catch all these bone idles out , ive been reading they will target them so that the genuine needy will get the help they deserve . We will see , nearly 100000 have handed in their DLA already for fear of being caught out >:(
Indeed the cost of implementation will be will be astronomic :(
Where have you got that from EMD? ??? ???
Try the very first post in this thread, Lizzie. ;)
Yes, I know; from the Telegraph ;) But that article was commenting on Incapacity Benefits Claimants, not DLA as EMD stated.
So again, were did you get that information (on DLA claimants) from EMD?
Also so yet again we are asked to believe a newspaper (Tory) that has previously given completely false information on welfare issues. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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:) :) ;) now now you two play nicely thats good kiddiwinkes ;D ;D ;D
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:) :) ;) now now you two play nicely thats good kiddiwinkes ;D ;D ;D
I am, but I need an answer to yet another statement made to discredit those who genuinely need help with disability, as the Disability Living Allowance covers, with false information. :y :y
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Just another thing to consider when the government is trying to save money from the folks that need it .
[quote]around £16 billion in benefits goes unclaimed every year. [/quote]
>:(
And thats from the DLA website . Where does all this unclaimed money go to every year ?????????????????????